You are not registered yet. Please click here to register!


 
 
plc storereviewsdownloads
This board is for PLC Related Q&A ONLY. Please DON'T use it for advertising, etc.
 
Try our online PLC Simulator- FREE.  Click here now to try it.

---------->>>>>Get FREE PLC Programming Tips

New Here? Please read this important info!!!


Go Back   PLCS.net - Interactive Q & A > PLCS.net - Interactive Q & A > LIVE PLC Questions And Answers

PLC training tools sale

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 14th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #1
Acrid
Member
Mexico

Acrid is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 5
Machine doubts

I have some time working in a big project that it's almost complete. The machine is already been used un production with minor issues from time to time due to some tolerances in raw material.

I have been working on reducing the time cycle to make it comply with the specs required from costumer. Since the machine is already producing, they don't like the idea of stoping it for too long to let me do program tests and debuging of sequence changes.

Now the costumer are pressuring me to finish with the reduction of the time cycle and some other pending issues.

What can i do? I'm planning on kind of kidnap the machine, don't letting them produce until a finish with the tests or everything they are requering me to finish.

I fear this would make the hell burn, but i can't see any other option. So any recomendation will be greatly apreciated.

I fear i will summon hell over me by doing this, but i can't see any other option. So any recomendation will be greatly apreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2017, 05:51 PM   #2
tarik1978
Member
Morocco

tarik1978 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: casablanca
Posts: 379
Have a meeting with management, explain your concerns, if they don't let you do; then go back until they have time to let you finish the job.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #3
James Mcquade
Member
United States

James Mcquade is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,208
Meet with management and tell them you cannot finish the job if they won't let you have the machine.

if they won't give it to you, have them sign off on the machine as is.
then get a po when they ask you to come fix the issues.
1/3 up front.

as an alternative, can you do online edits to fix the machine?
can't the timers (if that is the issue) be changed online?

regards,
james
  Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2017, 09:59 PM   #4
Acrid
Member
Mexico

Acrid is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 5
Hello James, thanks for you responce. I have been working on it offline and making changes online, there are some major changes in sequences that needs to be tested, and some parameters in some controllers that need to be changed, and I have to stop normal production to do that. The timer can be changed online (it's a compactlogix).

The plant manager already know we need time to test, i think they are doing their job and are looking only at the numbers, the production, and want the machine within specification.
Until now I was working in a parallel sequence that can be exchanged whit the original toggling a bit, to be able to go back in case I need to without having to load a backup to the PLC.

Any way, I thing I will let them the costumer know when I need to do some testing and debugging so they could prepare for it, if they don't let me then I will go up to the manager. I know that if I stop it without notice, there will be someone in no time asking me why the machine is stoped, and pressuring me to make it work again.

Regards
  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 01:11 AM   #5
janner_10
Supporting Member
United Kingdom

janner_10 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Tewkesbury
Posts: 643
Have they paid you for the machine yet?
  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 01:26 AM   #6
spaderkung
Member
Sweden

spaderkung is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A flat type "4"
Posts: 342
Sounds like you're more rewriting than adjusting. You have only painful choices from this point if you solve it by automation I'm afraid.

One download there is surely time for, but you need more?
__________________
Jon Bolmstedt, Inspired Automatician.

Last edited by spaderkung; October 15th, 2017 at 01:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 08:56 AM   #7
Acrid
Member
Mexico

Acrid is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaderkung View Post
Sounds like you're more rewriting than adjusting. You have only painful choices from this point if you solve it by automation I'm afraid.

One download there is surely time for, but you need more?
You are right, I had to rewrite, and split some routines. And it isn't the time for the program download only, I need to test all the changes to make sure there won't be any issues later. It if they start to pressure me to finish to restart production, I will need to revert all the changes in case I couldn't figure out what's wrong in the code. Just in case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janner_10 View Post
Have they paid you for the machine yet?
1 of 3, they were supoused to make the second payment after validation, they are already producing with the machine so you could say it is validated and their excuse is that the cycle time is out of specs, and there are some features that haven't been implemented yet.

Last edited by Acrid; October 15th, 2017 at 09:06 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 10:11 AM   #8
daba
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
United Kingdom

daba is offline
 
daba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 4,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrid View Post
1 of 3, they were supoused to make the second payment after validation, they are already producing with the machine so you could say it is validated and their excuse is that the cycle time is out of specs, and there are some features that haven't been implemented yet.
I can see a nasty situation coming where they get a machine that's almost good for them, at a much reduced price, by refusing to make further payments.

If they haven't signed for the machine yet, or made final payments, IMHO you have every right to demand as much time as you need to finish it to their satisfaction.

They cannot justify abducting it for production, at the same time whingeing they want it speeded up and finished. They are not playing fair, making money out of the machine, and not paying you....
__________________
___________________________
ControlLogix & SLC Training
a-b train ltd.
abtrain@tiscali.co.uk
www.abtrain.co.uk
tel: 07506 73 9999
nil illegitimi carborundem


  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #9
DwSoFt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Canada

DwSoFt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by daba View Post
I can see a nasty situation coming where they get a machine that's almost good for them, at a much reduced price, by refusing to make further payments.

If they haven't signed for the machine yet, or made final payments, IMHO you have every right to demand as much time as you need to finish it to their satisfaction.

They cannot justify abducting it for production, at the same time whingeing they want it speeded up and finished. They are not playing fair, making money out of the machine, and not paying you....
I agree entirely with this.

In fact if they won't pay cause it's not in spec. I would honestly stop production for my download now and take as much time as I needed. Unless of course the delivered time has passed by but even then. They are making money off the machine even if it's not quite to the project spec's. If there is someone in your company above you to talk to make it happen. If your the boss/owner. Well also make it happen. Lol
__________________
Dan Wiebe
-----------------
Automation Manager
Phoenix Energy Services
  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 02:41 PM   #10
Acrid
Member
Mexico

Acrid is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwSoFt View Post
I agree entirely with this.

In fact if they won't pay cause it's not in spec. I would honestly stop production for my download now and take as much time as I needed. Unless of course the delivered time has passed by but even then. They are making money off the machine even if it's not quite to the project spec's. If there is someone in your company above you to talk to make it happen. If your the boss/owner. Well also make it happen. Lol
Certainly the delivery time has passed. I have the same reasoning about them making money off the machine. They are fearing we aren't going to give support once they have paid, that's understood, until now we have been working on solve every issue that has shown.

As some of you suggested, i will try to be as polite as posssible, trying to talk before hand with the management leting them know what i need in order to complete the work, and do everything i can to finish it in the best possible way.

Thanks for your responces, it have been an stressful project
  Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #11
jstolaruk
Member
United States

jstolaruk is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Detroit, SE Michigan
Posts: 3,242
I hate these kind of situations. It usually happens when the machine builder ships the machine before its proven out for quality, or production rate, or full functionality, or because its late - or all four. Sorry you're in this pickle.
__________________
"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred." Woody Allen
  Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #12
spaderkung
Member
Sweden

spaderkung is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A flat type "4"
Posts: 342
I see you took into account of testing all your changes which is very good. But in order to revert them easily that you worried about, do you have a program copy of the old "delivered" version?
__________________
Jon Bolmstedt, Inspired Automatician.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2017, 05:31 AM   #13
cardosocea
Member
United Kingdom

cardosocea is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Fields of corn
Posts: 1,025
Why did you let them run production without signing a sheet saying that they accept that milestone leaving them the final stages of payment to be done at which point it would be easier (not to be confused with easy) to just up and leave?

I'm not sure of who you work for, but they should be the ones trying to sort this problem out as it will also depend on how the contracting was done, local laws, etc... you probably aren't aware of this and therefore they are better suited to deal with it.
As for yourself, I would probably stop working on the machine altogether particularly if something is broken or not to their liking...

I was in a similar position where the company took over the system I was upgrading without it being completed or even proven to work and started operating it.

When I realised this, I highlighted the fact that I wasn't finished and the machine they had was not tested fully and therefore was putting the lives of the people on site at stake as well as risking an environmental disaster. They didn't cared and I called my manager to explain the situation.
Basically he told me to get out as my work was done when they took over the machine without it being finished so they are responsible.
I did and while on my layover they were already in trouble and looking for me to get me back.

Basically they complained that the job was not complete and that someone had to go over and fix it free of charge, to which my company told them that they were operating with a machine that wasn't proven, they were notified that it wasn't tested and took over anyway, thus accepting the machine as is to be in a good condition. If they don't pay the remainder of the invoice, the company will have to contact their corporate office and quite likely escalate this all the way to the top of their organization. Any more work to be done will be done so on a separate PO.
I refused to go back, but my colleague that went over was quite happy with how he was treated.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2017, 12:56 PM   #14
Acrid
Member
Mexico

Acrid is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstolaruk View Post
I hate these kind of situations. It usually happens when the machine builder ships the machine before its proven out for quality, or production rate, or full functionality, or because its late - or all four. Sorry you're in this pickle.
That's what happened our client cut down the time for the project, and we needed to finish the machine in their facilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaderkung View Post
I see you took into account of testing all your changes which is very good. But in order to revert them easily that you worried about, do you have a program copy of the old "delivered" version?
i made a backup for any major changes, documenting them the best i could

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardosocea View Post
Why did you let them run production without signing a sheet saying that they accept that milestone leaving them the final stages of payment to be done at which point it would be easier (not to be confused with easy) to just up and leave?

I'm not sure of who you work for, but they should be the ones trying to sort this problem out as it will also depend on how the contracting was done, local laws, etc... you probably aren't aware of this and therefore they are better suited to deal with it.
As for yourself, I would probably stop working on the machine altogether particularly if something is broken or not to their liking...
Now that you mention it, thats what we should have done since the begining, stat that the machine wasn't complete, and take responsibility of the machine if they were going to use it for production.

Our manager is dealing with the situation, the only thing for me to do is take it easy, and do my job
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Jump to Live PLC Question and Answer Forum

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeping track of machine utilization mutabi LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 3 August 2nd, 2012 06:27 PM
Bekum Blow Molding Machine - PLC retrofit johnd_125 LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 8 May 21st, 2012 09:24 AM
advise on machine motor postioning. 2004sk4 LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 3 November 15th, 2007 05:13 AM
OEE on siemens S7 machine surfandkite LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 1 May 19th, 2005 03:23 AM
One PLC, One machine V's One PLC, Two Machines Mylo LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 13 March 4th, 2005 04:38 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:24 AM.


.