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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:41 AM   #1
phuz
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Logix 5000 crash with Control-C (copy)

I've run into this a couple times and while I see a lot of references to Fatal crashes on the RA knowledgebase, I don't see one for this specifically.

It doesn't happen every time, but when it does, it's usually when copying a rung or an instruction. The moment I hit CTRL-C, it pops up.

The description in the log is not all that helpful.

Quote:
Sat Dec 23 07:49:12 2017


Fatal Error!

Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Rockwell Software\RSLogix 5000\ENU\v20\Bin\RS5000.exe
Elapsed execution time: 21 minutes & 18 seconds

Version: V20.04.00 (Release)
Location: 0xffffffffffffffff+-1

OS Version: Windows 7 64-bit (Service Pack 1 - Build 7601)
Thread Id: 00006dd8 (28120)

Error 0xc0000005 (-1073741819)

EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION - An "access violation" exception was generated.

One project file is currently open:

C:\RSLOGIX 5000\PROJECTS\PouchConveyance.ACD
Work Path: C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\RSLogix5000.Temp\ AB_1649\AB_5AF1
Time open: 18 minutes & 55 seconds
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Old December 24th, 2017, 10:35 AM   #2
thingstodo
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The info may be helpful to the person who compiled the program, but I would expect that it will not be. I would guess that Windows is reporting the issue, not RSLogix 5000.

My suggestion would be to install on a newer computer with more resources - memory, hard drive, processor speed - and see if you still get the problem. I have not had this particular problem, but have had many like it.

The stuff below is why I would try a new computer before anything else.

I have run into many ... I'll call them phantom problems ... on computers that just are getting too old, slow, and don't have enough memory to handle the applications any more. We inherit laptops that are renewed with our 3 year evergreen project. 3 year old laptops are still functional for a single program, like RSLogix 5000 or RSLogix 500 or Panelbuilder. We load them up and use them rarely when we need to go out to a local PLC to connect for some reason.

These are the kinds of computers that download 3 months of updates whenever we connect to our network, since we have them powered off and forget about them most of the time.

It is these computers that have generated some weird and wonderful error messages that no one else seems to see. We had chased them at the beginning, and not made any progress. When the problems get too frequent, we retire the laptops. Once you get the software running on a more powerful laptop and have more available memory and hard drive space, the problems go away for a while.

Then you install a few updates, and some new problems surface. And you deal with them until you can replace the hardware again.

If we had the budget, we'd just use faster, more powerful laptops to begin with. That would lower the time we spend on phantom software problems.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 10:40 AM   #3
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
The info may be helpful to the person who compiled the program, but I would expect that it will not be. I would guess that Windows is reporting the issue, not RSLogix 5000.

My suggestion would be to install on a newer computer with more resources - memory, hard drive, processor speed - and see if you still get the problem. I have not had this particular problem, but have had many like it.

The stuff below is why I would try a new computer before anything else.

I have run into many ... I'll call them phantom problems ... on computers that just are getting too old, slow, and don't have enough memory to handle the applications any more. We inherit laptops that are renewed with our 3 year evergreen project. 3 year old laptops are still functional for a single program, like RSLogix 5000 or RSLogix 500 or Panelbuilder. We load them up and use them rarely when we need to go out to a local PLC to connect for some reason.

These are the kinds of computers that download 3 months of updates whenever we connect to our network, since we have them powered off and forget about them most of the time.

It is these computers that have generated some weird and wonderful error messages that no one else seems to see. We had chased them at the beginning, and not made any progress. When the problems get too frequent, we retire the laptops. Once you get the software running on a more powerful laptop and have more available memory and hard drive space, the problems go away for a while.

Then you install a few updates, and some new problems surface. And you deal with them until you can replace the hardware again.

If we had the budget, we'd just use faster, more powerful laptops to begin with. That would lower the time we spend on phantom software problems.
Thanks, but this has nothing to do with system resources, I assure you.

2.7GHz i7 w/ 24GB RAM and the system is always near idle when this occurs.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 01:12 PM   #4
Aardwizz
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I've seen a few instances where crashes occur because the .ACD file is a bit "corrupt" -- not badly enough to not open, or navigate, etc. But perhaps "fragmented", particulary large programs that have been online-edited by multiple simultaneous users.

The first thing I do when I see weird things like this happening it to take the file to ASCII -- save as an L5K or L5X -- and download, if I can.

If you watch the file size, you'll see that the .ACD file gets "bloated" over time. I've been told (by Rockwell developers) that the .ACD file contains two images of the program -- online and offline (for managing online editing, before they've been pushed to the processor).

So it could be ("could" with a very big caveat or hypothetical speculation) that when you try to copy, the program is trying to grab code that is just so badly indexed that it goes into a bad place (recursive loop, or other hell-hole).

It's an easy thing to try, esp. when compared with re-installing Logix or any of it's components. Even if you can't do a download because it's a working system, checking to see if the CTRL+C causes a crash on a "virgin" ACD file tells you what it's not.

Rebooting is the second thing to try (although I suspect that you did that already), just to clear memory-leak issues and other doesn't-play-nice memory-resident DLLs.

Best of luck.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #5
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aardwizz View Post
I've seen a few instances where crashes occur because the .ACD file is a bit "corrupt" -- not badly enough to not open, or navigate, etc. But perhaps "fragmented", particulary large programs that have been online-edited by multiple simultaneous users.

The first thing I do when I see weird things like this happening it to take the file to ASCII -- save as an L5K or L5X -- and download, if I can.

If you watch the file size, you'll see that the .ACD file gets "bloated" over time. I've been told (by Rockwell developers) that the .ACD file contains two images of the program -- online and offline (for managing online editing, before they've been pushed to the processor).

So it could be ("could" with a very big caveat or hypothetical speculation) that when you try to copy, the program is trying to grab code that is just so badly indexed that it goes into a bad place (recursive loop, or other hell-hole).

It's an easy thing to try, esp. when compared with re-installing Logix or any of it's components. Even if you can't do a download because it's a working system, checking to see if the CTRL+C causes a crash on a "virgin" ACD file tells you what it's not.

Rebooting is the second thing to try (although I suspect that you did that already), just to clear memory-leak issues and other doesn't-play-nice memory-resident DLLs.

Best of luck.
Unfortunately with this particular incident yesterday, it was a brand new file (offline only) that had never been downloaded and was barely any code in it. So, you would think that a file like this would be as "clean" as they come. I know there are some ongoing issues between RSLogix and Adobe Acrobat Reader and always wonder if they are not playing nice in the background. I had to remove Acrobat Reader DC and revert to X because it was making rung edits painfully slow. How they are interconnected I don't know, but it seems like Logix can misbehave.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #6
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I've had the same issue (crashing with control c). Noticed it never happens as long as I have saved the program within the last 30 minutes). Haven't gotten around to trying to find a solution except for remembering to save more often (probably a good thing anyway eh). So I'll be following this thread closely. I've been running version 28 on a windows 7enterprise virtual machine.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 07:35 PM   #7
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I've had RS-Logix 5000 crash with an unhandled exception when attempting to cut-and-paste between different, older versions. For example, between V12 and v16, where V16 would crash if I remember correctly. This was a very repeatable issue, and I think is covered in the Rockwell KB.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 07:22 AM   #8
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Some general information about error 0xC0000005:

https://compfreakstars.blogspot.com/...-day-many.html
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Old December 27th, 2017, 03:15 AM   #9
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If this is an old version of L5K a few years ago there was a known issue whereby copying/pasting would cause a crash if Microsoft Outlook was running on the same machine. The solution was simply to stop Outlook. This was the sort of weird integration problem wich used to happen a lot.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 05:07 AM   #10
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybr View Post
If this is an old version of L5K a few years ago there was a known issue whereby copying/pasting would cause a crash if Microsoft Outlook was running on the same machine. The solution was simply to stop Outlook. This was the sort of weird integration problem wich used to happen a lot.
Thanks, it was a version 20 program. Next time it starts occurring, I'll close Outlook and see what happens.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #11
JaxGTO
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I had a version 20.01 that was doing that. Tech support said to export it to a L5K, well that crashed too. Even trying to upload the PLC crashes. So I ended up making a whole new file and copying and pasting each rung of each ladder, routine by routine, which only crashed a couple of times. Of course even exporting the ladder files would crash it. Then I had to write a quick macro in Excel to get the current online data that I cared about (good old DDE to RSLinx). Then finally I was able to download the new program and it has been fine since.

I am trying to migrate everything I can to version 30.0. It seems to be stable enough...so far
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