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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:05 PM   #1
agarb
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Wonderware Intouch, Kepware timing issue with "simultaneous" writing of many tags

I have an Intouch application coupled with Kepware that is using the recipe manager to write approximately 2200 tags to a CompactLogix processor via Ethernet.

The issue is the timing of getting all the tags written "simultaneously". It seems to take a variable amount of time, ranging from 5-25 seconds. This long and random timing sometimes causes process issues if the cycle starts before the recipe has fully updated.

I am working on optimizing the communications based on some info from Kepware. I am still quite concerned about the large delay and the apparent variation in it. I think it is due to the customerís network which I have no control over.

I have called both Wonderware and Kepware looking for some help but so far come up empty. Ideally, there would be some handshaking or a way to monitor Kepware/Intouch status to see if there are tags that have not yet been written and inhibit the start of the next machine cycle until everything is updated.

Short of adding a 30 second time delay to each recipe transfer, Iím not sure how to address this. I thought I could add one parameter at the end of the recipe that I read back out of the PLC to see if the transfer is complete but I donít know if the recipe parameters will always be transferred sequentially.

Anyone have any suggestions?
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Old January 15th, 2018, 04:33 PM   #2
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There are pending read and write queue count tags that are system tags for every channel under the _Statistics folder. You do have to enable channel diagnostics to read them. However when enabled you will be able to see how many writes are in the write queue and how quickly they are being processed.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 04:47 PM   #3
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Thanks Fred!

I was able to find those tags and will do some more testing tomorrow.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 10:56 PM   #4
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Why are you using kepware instead of Wonderware’s DA Server?
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Old January 16th, 2018, 08:45 AM   #5
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We are using Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services where up to 3 users can log in concurrently and run intouch. The WW distributor said it was less expensive to buy all the intouch licenses without I/O and then buy one Kepware license.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 01:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Loveless View Post
There are pending read and write queue count tags that are system tags for every channel under the _Statistics folder. You do have to enable channel diagnostics to read them. However when enabled you will be able to see how many writes are in the write queue and how quickly they are being processed.
Fred, I can watch the pending read/write counts with the OPC quick client but I can't seem to read them into my Intouch application. I was able to read the failed reads/writes, though. Should I also be able to get the intouch application to read the pending counts?
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Old April 10th, 2018, 02:01 PM   #7
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Yes you should be able tot read them in any client. All tags should be available to all clients unless that client does not support the tag syntax or the data type.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 03:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agarb View Post
We are using Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services where up to 3 users can log in concurrently and run intouch. The WW distributor said it was less expensive to buy all the intouch licenses without I/O and then buy one Kepware license.
Sounds like you got what you paid for.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 03:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agarb View Post
We are using Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services where up to 3 users can log in concurrently and run intouch. The WW distributor said it was less expensive to buy all the intouch licenses without I/O and then buy one Kepware license.
Seriously though, I don't understand why you needed multiple InTouch licenses in order to use Remote Desktop Services.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 04:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bit_Bucket_07 View Post
Seriously though, I don't understand why you needed multiple InTouch licenses in order to use Remote Desktop Services.
I don't either...1 pc, 1 license?
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Old April 10th, 2018, 04:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agarb View Post
I have an Intouch application coupled with Kepware that is using the recipe manager to write approximately 2200 tags to a CompactLogix processor via Ethernet.

The issue is the timing of getting all the tags written "simultaneously". It seems to take a variable amount of time, ranging from 5-25 seconds. This long and random timing sometimes causes process issues if the cycle starts before the recipe has fully updated.

I am working on optimizing the communications based on some info from Kepware. I am still quite concerned about the large delay and the apparent variation in it. I think it is due to the customerís network which I have no control over.

I have called both Wonderware and Kepware looking for some help but so far come up empty. Ideally, there would be some handshaking or a way to monitor Kepware/Intouch status to see if there are tags that have not yet been written and inhibit the start of the next machine cycle until everything is updated.

Short of adding a 30 second time delay to each recipe transfer, Iím not sure how to address this. I thought I could add one parameter at the end of the recipe that I read back out of the PLC to see if the transfer is complete but I donít know if the recipe parameters will always be transferred sequentially.

Anyone have any suggestions?
Do you have this issue when using only the local desktop and no one is using remote desktop service connection?
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Old April 10th, 2018, 05:30 PM   #12
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There are multiple factors at work here, The primary one being that by design, unless you are writing to an array, the server writes one item at a time. It has been that way since v2,7 of the server. Unfortunately intouch does not support arrays, unless that has changed. This means that the write will be placed in a write queue until they can be processed. This queue can be monitored using the _Statistic._Pending writes tag which should be able to be read by any client. For WW you many need to play around with Topic.

Now we have no control over how fast the writes are processed by the controller which in turn effects the speed at which the writes are stripped from the queue.

If you have an active case with Kepware have ask you support person to contact me and I will have a look at it. Ideally the best way to ensure the the writes process faster is to be able to write an array of values to the device
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Old April 10th, 2018, 05:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Fred_Loveless View Post
Ideally the best way to ensure the the writes process faster is to be able to write an array of values to the device
Oh yea....are your recipe tags in continuous registers and/or bits?

Most I/O servers move data in continuous arrays....except when you break the array, it takes another read or write..
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Old April 10th, 2018, 10:05 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bit_Bucket_07 View Post
Sounds like you got what you paid for.
That's seems a bit harsh. Kepware is generally a quality product and I use it frequently for the Simatic TI505 product line where there is no WW DA server. I just need to get through this problem. Likely something I'm doing wrong.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 10:09 PM   #15
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I don't either...1 pc, 1 license?
Because multiple simultaneous remote sessions are allowed and each session (up to the license count) can run a unique intouch application . All the intouch applications are stored on one PC so wonderware only needs to be installed, configured, and maintained in one location.
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