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Old February 5th, 2018, 12:10 PM   #1
spartacus06
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Euro 380/50HZ

Hello,

I wanted to know if anyone has had success running European equipment on US power supply. We have a hydraulic control panel setup for 380V power & 110V control, that we want to hook up to our 460/60HZ supply. If so, what potential issues did you run into besides the motor speed increase?
Did you replace the transformer or coils?


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Old February 5th, 2018, 01:45 PM   #2
James Mcquade
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Please look again at the control voltage, I see 220 volts, European Standard.
they don't have 110 volts like the USA. I can be wrong, double check.

In order for the controls to work, you will need to get a transformer and reduce the voltage to 380 volts.
if you don't want to do that, replace the motor, it not work for long on 460 volts.
50 hz valves will burn up within 6 months. you may just have to replace the coils only, I can't remember.

you cannot just hook a 380 volt system to 460 and expect it to work.
if I am wrong, someone please correct me.

james
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Old February 5th, 2018, 02:27 PM   #3
spartacus06
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Thanks James, the taps for the transformer are 380/415 to 110/115.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 02:34 PM   #4
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The motor is 380V delta/ 660V wye
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Old February 5th, 2018, 03:18 PM   #5
jraef
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Motors provide torque based on the ratio of votlage and frequency they are designed for, +-10%. 380V 50Hz motors are designed for 7.6 V/Hz, 460V 60Hz motors are designed for 7.67 V/Hz, this is not a coincidence. The motor will provide rated torque with no problem, but it will run 20% (60/50) faster.

The coils on the controls likewise will be fine in most cases. Running 50Hz coils on 60Hz is usually fine. Technically, because the coil's inductive reactance changes with frequency, applying 60Hz to a coil designed for 50Hz results in the coil having 5/6 the the magnetic force is was designed for. Generally though, control coils provide significantly more magnetic force than necessary, so it's rarely a problem. But it's typically bad to use a 60Hz coil in a 50Hz system, because the coils will over-flux and run hot. In truth though, most manufacturers design their coils as 50Hz with enough extra magnetic force to be used at 60Hz, and call them 50/60Hz.

Last edited by jraef; February 5th, 2018 at 03:22 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 03:43 PM   #6
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We ship a fair few panels to the states for use on 460v systems with no change on our 400v systems, modern drives and transformers are fine.

Although, your drawing looks like its for the Ark, so wouldn't like to comment.

We haven't used 110v on our control systems since Jesus was a baby and thats where the confusion always kicks in.

Our American cousins use 'Ice Cube' relays to get around it, which is a phrase which always makes me chuckle.

Completely unhelpful, but thought I would chime in.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 04:23 PM   #7
AustralIan
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Some control panel components are only rated for 400+-10%, so your 460 will be beyond that. It can break down the insulation and eventually cause shorts.

Either spend a few hundred dollars of your salary going through each component and wire and make sure it meets your local regs, or pay your local control panel builder a few hundred bucks to whack a 460V 60hz 45kw star delta starter and some timers and relays in a panel for you.

Also, a 380V 50Hz 45kW motor is a 54kW motor when you run it on 60Hz 460V. Make sure you size accordingly. For smaller motors, we tend to stick them on inverters/VFDs when swapping to a 60Hz installation after the design stage. Come to think of it, this might suit you well, as you will benefit from efficiency gains of using a VFD on a variable torque application.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 04:35 PM   #8
Gene Bond
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Your hydraulic pump motor will likely be overloaded running on 60hz. Put a VFD on it and run it at 380v/50hz.

Deal with the control voltage and coils as advised above.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 12:58 AM   #9
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Thanks everyone, the powers that be is trying to provide a safe short term solution. The company is prepared to replace the 380V equipment with 480V equipment if anything is damaged during this process.

I am currently going through the size calculations for the cables, OLs, fuses, etc. based on the 20 percent power increase for 54kw.

I will post an update to let you guys know how this conversion goes.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 09:06 AM   #10
boneless
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A new trend on vessels is to have a floating voltage/frequency, often 380..440V/50..60Hz. This works fine for much of our equipment (electric heaters, circulation pumps, feed water pumps), but not for everything. Burners (forced draft fan, oil pumps) do not like changing the supply.
Check with your motor supplier, I think it would be rather for your oil pressure to be within specs.

I would look into installing a converter, such that the client can just remove the converter once they are ready for the new voltage.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 12:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartacus06 View Post
Thanks everyone, the powers that be is trying to provide a safe short term solution. The company is prepared to replace the 380V equipment with 480V equipment if anything is damaged during this process.

I am currently going through the size calculations for the cables, OLs, fuses, etc. based on the 20 percent power increase for 54kw.

I will post an update to let you guys know how this conversion goes.
Careful, there is a 20% MECHANICAL POWER increase by virtue of the speed increase, but the current will remain the same because torque remains the same. That is, UNLESS the loads are centrifugal pumps, but most of the time hydraulic pumps are gear or piston pumps, so that would not apply.
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