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Old January 5th, 2005, 12:20 PM   #1
504bloke
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Device Net with AB 50/4 and ABB Drive

Hi

I am pretty conversant with plc programming but have not had anything to do with devicenet as yet, only RIO, DH+ and DH485 on the AB Networks

I am looking at a project with and ABB Drive fitted with a devicenet card and a 5/04 plc running a SDN scanner to communicate with the ABB drive.


I need all equivanlent dig and analogue io from the drive in a read an write basis, i.e. to be able to read faults, read motor current and speed etc, also need to be able to give the drive a setpoint from the plc..........

So how easy is all this as i have been looking on AB and ABB's sites for programming examples and how the units talk to each other but cannot find much of use ?

All help appreciated!

Cheers
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Old January 5th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #2
kamenges
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Much of what you are able to do is dependent on the DeviceNet interface in the drive. Typical drive implementations provide for some fixed number of polled I/O bytes. Some allow explicit messaging. All that I have seen will at the very least support a control word (for start/stop, enable, reset, etc) and a speed reference from the plc to the drive and a status word (ready, faulted, at speed, etc) and a speed feedback from the drive to the plc. After that it's all up to what the drive manufacturer decided to allow.

Even if you can do explicit messagimg you may not want to. It's not particilarly easy to do correctly on the plc level. If someone gives you a proven message handler subroutine you may want to try it. If you have to write it yourself from scratch, set aside some time.

You will need RSNetworx for DeviceNet to configure your scanner. The scanner configuration is actually pretty easy, IMHO. However, all you get back on the processor side is a big block of data. It's up to you to figure out what this data belongs to once its in the plc. Contrast this with RIO where an inputs location is fixed by a rack/slot location. So it is in your best interest to come up with a good documment detailing your data layout so you know where stuff goes.

Keith
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Old January 5th, 2005, 12:41 PM   #3
rsdoran
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Here are AB's Devicenet frequently asked questions:
http://www.ab.com/networks/dnetfaq.html

This explains Devicenet:
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/1...14372/1768364/

You will need RSNetworx:
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/1...68364/2782392/

You will need the EDS file for the ABB drive.

BTW I have done it using a variety of products from different manufacturers so it cant be hard.
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Old January 5th, 2005, 12:51 PM   #4
504bloke
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Thanks for that

I have the abb drives devicenet manual and it seems to do most of what i need (clear as mud!!) i would post the link but after downloading it i cant find it know!

The drive is an 825Kw DC 690 Volt supply model type DCS500 with the devicenet board fitted

Will there be any problems with the data network speed ? Or should i think about using ProfiBus as the drive also supports this?

Apart from this drive there will be 3 other smaller <7.5kw drives on the network as well


Ahhhhh

I found the ABB Drives devicenet manual

http://www.abb.pl/global/plabb/plabb...56d6e0030f40b/$FILE/Devicenet%20NDNA-02%20UM%203A%20eng.pdf

Last edited by 504bloke; January 5th, 2005 at 12:55 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2005, 12:59 PM   #5
rsdoran
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Personally I like Devicenet, if you want to learn more about it goto:
http://www.odva.org

Its a fielbus system that uses producer/consumer the same as profibus.
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Old January 5th, 2005, 05:34 PM   #6
Alan Case
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Hi. I have connected AB processors to ABB drives on devicenet and it was not a good experience.
It is quite easy to get and send the basic assembly of 2 words but I was never able to send or receive the extended assemblies. Reason: ABB did not fully test their EDS files for the drives (ACS550)
I found ABB tech support to be quite hopeless on the devicenet side of things as they are more skewed to the European flavoured networks (ie profibus)
I have had to use explicit messaging to be able to get back all the extra data from the drives that usually you can get through the extended assemblies. It works but you should not have to do it that way.
To go down this path you need a good understanding of how devicenet communicates with drives so that when something doesnt work , you can determine if it is your code or a failing of the ABB side.
If you have any specific questions then feel free to ask. Regards Alan Case
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Old January 5th, 2005, 06:03 PM   #7
504bloke
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Case
Hi. I have connected AB processors to ABB drives on devicenet and it was not a good experience.
It is quite easy to get and send the basic assembly of 2 words but I was never able to send or receive the extended assemblies. Reason: ABB did not fully test their EDS files for the drives (ACS550)
I found ABB tech support to be quite hopeless on the devicenet side of things as they are more skewed to the European flavoured networks (ie profibus)
I have had to use explicit messaging to be able to get back all the extra data from the drives that usually you can get through the extended assemblies. It works but you should not have to do it that way.
To go down this path you need a good understanding of how devicenet communicates with drives so that when something doesnt work , you can determine if it is your code or a failing of the ABB side.
If you have any specific questions then feel free to ask. Regards Alan Case
This is what i was worried about !

I dont want to waste hours trying to get the plc and drive communicating properly only to find its not possible in an easy devicenet manner

What drives were you using and how long ago ?

I will be using the

DCS50x-B1503Y1

a dcs500 drive 1500 amps with the Ndna 02 Device net adapter fitted

According to the devicenet pdf file their drives are fully tested with the 1747-SDN AB Scanner module ???????????

cheers for the help!

Dave
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Old January 5th, 2005, 07:51 PM   #8
Alan Case
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It was about 6 months ago, the drives were ACS550 with the RNDA-01 devicenet module. It took me a long time to convince tech support that the EDS files for the 550 are different than the files for the 850 which they kept sending me.
ABB have 2 versions of the EDS file, a short version which is downloadable which allows two words of control data and 2 words of status data. If you wish more you have to call ABB and they will send you the extended EDS file with all the parameters. I found the short version was perfect, where the extended version when I finally got it was ****, full of errors and barely worked. Call ABB and see if you can get the extended EDS for the drive in question (and get it sent to you), query the tech support guy on how many parameters can be read via the extended assemblies (I think it ia about 8 words), ask him if the adaptors support explicit messaging? If you get a silent wait and a lot of hmmming then he is as clueless as the guys I spoke to.
Devicenet is normally easy to use and you can get all the info you want but only if the supplier of the end product does his job right. When you get the eds file open it as a text file and you will see all the parameters you should be able to read or set.
Regards Alan
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Old January 5th, 2005, 10:44 PM   #9
Bitmore
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Alan pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I have also had problems with ABB drives and the devicenet interface module. They talk really big but deliver VERY little. The devicenet module they currently have will only support 8 bytes! Their sales/tech support has no idea what is really going on.
Currently their devicenet only supports the "assembly 120" structure.
The specs on the GM6 are worthless.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 01:01 AM   #10
Alan Case
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Thanks Bitmore. I was starting to think I was just a thick person and I was doing it wrong, glad to know I am not alone with the problems. I was eventually able to read and write all the data I required but it was with explicit messaging. If you need examples of this just ask. Alan
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Old January 6th, 2005, 03:51 AM   #11
BobB
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Talking

Check at ODVA

I only ever use Device Net devices that have been fully tested here. NOTHING ELSE WILL DO , forget it!!!!

Not worth the effort really!!!

Have not done explicit messaging with AB but have done it many times with Omron. A real pain in the "A***" the first time around but, as with most things, you wonder at the end of the day why you were so stupid. Next time it is easy. If you go this way, YES , make sure you allocate plenty of time to get it right the first time around. Second time will be easy!!!
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Old January 6th, 2005, 11:39 AM   #12
504bloke
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Quote:
Originally posted by BobB
Check at ODVA
Found this over at the ODVA Site

http://www.odva.org/10_2/04_products/349-1AB01.htm

Does this mean the ABB Drive is now ODVA approved ?
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Old January 6th, 2005, 12:17 PM   #13
Ken Roach
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I think we might be talking about old ABB DNet versus new ABB DNet.

Alan Case was using ACS550 with the RNDA-01 interface.

504bloke will be using DCS500 with the NDNA-02 interface.

The ODVA site implies that the NDNA-02 and many drives, including the DCS500, are tested and certified by the ODVA.

What the ODVA page omits, and Alan suffered so much heartache over, is that the new ACS550 drive and the new RNDA-01 interface are untested, unproven, and generally don't work on DeviceNet.

I could not find an actual declaration of conformity for the RDNA-01 or the NDNA-02.

If it were me (of course, if it were me I'd be using a Rockwell drive) I would feel a little nervous about the NDNA-02, and downright suspicious about the RNDA-01.
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Last edited by Ken Roach; January 6th, 2005 at 12:20 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 02:27 PM   #14
Gerry
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be wary of profibus too

Quote:
should i think about using ProfiBus as the drive also supports this?
Recently had a number of ACS800 drives supplied with profibus interfaces that simply did not function. The interfaces had to be replaced with new modules that had updated firmware. The really annoying part is that ABB were aware of the problem before the drives were shipped and wanted payment for the "upgrade".

It would appear that ABB's testing procedures for fieldbus interfaces are somewhere between negligible and non-existant.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 02:34 PM   #15
504bloke
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Re: be wary of profibus too

Quote:
Originally posted by Gerry

Recently had a number of ACS800 drives supplied with profibus interfaces that simply did not function. The interfaces had to be replaced with new modules that had updated firmware. The really annoying part is that ABB were aware of the problem before the drives were shipped and wanted payment for the "upgrade".

It would appear that ABB's testing procedures for fieldbus interfaces are somewhere between negligible and non-existant.
I am starting to get a headache
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