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Old August 26th, 2005, 04:46 AM   #1
jolio ST
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Woodward EGCP-3

Hello guys.

I have a question about the EGCP-3 from Woodward company. Anyone who has operated with this hardware or knows the operation of this hardware I would really like to hear your advice.
I have read the manual (manual 26122E), and I have seen the wiring diagram configuration for pre-configured inputs and configurable inputs.

The manual states that there are two conditions to supply for the pre-configured inputs, that is either from the isolated +24VDC supply from the terminal 26, or an external +24VDC supply with the negative wired to terminal 25.
But for configurable inputs, it only stated a +24VDC supply from terminal 26. I was wondering is it possible to use an external 24VDC supply to drive the configurable inputs?

Another question is about the grouping of configurable inputs and pre-configured inputs. The manual diagram shows the wiring of external supply to the pre-configured inputs only limited to input 1 to 5. 6 onwards are driven by the isolated supply. If I wired 1,2,4,6 to the external supply and 5 onwards with the islated supply, is it possible?

Anyone to help me with this? Thanks!

regards
Sherine T.
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Old August 26th, 2005, 05:16 AM   #2
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Just using a couple of EGCP2 units at the moment. Have not used 3's. Have they fixed all the problems they had with the 3's?
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Old August 26th, 2005, 05:41 AM   #3
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I'm not so sure about this, Bob. My first using a EGCP-3, and I've never used this EGCP models before. It's a little difficult for I need to use this model to synchronise the generator to parallel to 2 supply utilities. This model only allows single synchronise to 1 supply utility.



I'm curious though. what are the known bugs to the 3s? How are they different from the 2s?

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Sherine T.
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Old August 26th, 2005, 06:05 AM   #4
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Everyone in Ozz that I know of has run away from the 3's but they may have fixed them. There were a multitude of documented problems, too many to mention here. I believe they are made in Europe. The 2's were really good until the latest revision. Damn things are likely to read 100 amps when the circuit breaker closes with no load. Has to be tuned out. The 2's are quite large and take up a lot of space in the face of the switch board. The 3's are much smaller.

I try to use the Aussie Si-TEC when I can but they are expensive. You only get what you pay for. The Si-TEC controllers are the best I have ever used but are 3 times the price of the 2's.

Good luck. I hope they have fixed them. Let me know how you go.
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Old August 26th, 2005, 07:08 AM   #5
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I do not have much idea. I've taken back this machine from site to my company workshop for more tests. The representative supplier here are not very clear about the termination I mention on post #1. He told me at best to trial and error. I managed to get the results I wanted when I used terminal 26 for all my inputs (using the test box comprising of switches and relays) but I feel that the isolated supply is not powerful enough to supply to all my circuit sequence. One or two sequence may run all over the panel before reaching the input.. and I might experience a drop that the EGCP-3 may not be able to read it. So I thought of seperating the configurable inputs from the configured inputs. It still didn't work when I installed it on site, so I'm back to square one again.
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Old August 26th, 2005, 01:43 PM   #6
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Hi Jolio,

I have encountered a similair problem with a different brand.
What I did was connecting the 0 to ground from the unit and the power supply.
After that I could supply the external supply to the inputs and outputs. Worked just fine.

May be you can give it a try.

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Old August 26th, 2005, 10:38 PM   #7
jolio ST
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Jurgen

Please explain the '0' you mention.

Here is the manual for EGCP-3 LS model.

regards
Sherine T.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 12:45 AM   #8
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The diagrams 2-28 and 2-29 are really quite clear. If you want to use the internal power supply, terminal 26 is the positive wetting voltage for all inputs.

If you want to use an external supply, negative goes to terminal 25 and the external positive is the wetting voltage for ALL inputs.

You could also use the internal power supply for some inputs and an external power supply for other inputs. This, however, is not advisable.

I would suggest you use the internal power supply as a wetting voltage for all inputs. This will help prevent any noise problems with different power supplies. I have had trouble with external power supplies into Woodward controllers before and choose to use the internal supplies these days.

Quote:
I have encountered a similair problem with a different brand.
What I did was connecting the 0 to ground from the unit and the power supply.
No need to do this as the diagrams show the negative point is internally grounded.

This is really pretty typical Woodward type wiring for their digital controllers.

Commissioned my job with the EGCP2's today. Final testing tomorrow. They are working fine now that the analogue inputs have been tuned properly.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 01:39 PM   #9
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What I mean with 0 to ground. Connect the zero, neutral of the 24Vdc to ground. That makes the plus 24Vdc the same potential.

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Jurgen
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Old August 27th, 2005, 02:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
What I mean with 0 to ground. Connect the zero, neutral of the 24Vdc to ground. That makes the plus 24Vdc the same potential.
The negative of the 24VDC is already grounded (terminal 25) in the Woodward controller. No need to ground it twice.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 03:40 AM   #11
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Thank you for the advice, Bob. I'd like to ask about the outputs. I have already completed the circuit, and the inputs are running alright now. The input to 'Run with load' will trigger the output to energise and start the engine. But is the output signal a pulse or an always 'on' state until the input signal is lost?

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Sherine T.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:46 AM   #12
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Sherine, here is a circuit diagram I have just used with an EGCP2. Finished final commissioning today. There is also a PLC diagram and the whole thing has been set up to suit a spec but will probably give you a good idea of how the Woodward system works.

I am also pulling 64 words of data per secong out of the EGCP2 into the PLC via Modbus RTU at 9600 baud. A bit slow but the EGCP3 can run at much higher baud rates. I hit the transmit request every 0.2 seconds from an Omron CJ1 PLC serail card. The data is transmitted over Omron Controller Link to several other PLCs and screens. These communications work about 50 times faster than the Modbus serial connection.

Hope this helps.

The start signal is only "crank". The 701A control the base speed and the EGCP2 impresses a bias on the 701A and the DVR to adjust speed and volts for synchronising and load sharing. You will also not that there is a "fuel solenoid" signal from the EGCP2 but there is no fuel solenoid so it is not used.

Do these things in my sleep these days.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 08:46 PM   #13
jolio ST
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Bob
Thank you very much on your advice!
The silly thing about this project I'm doing is that the client did not want a PLC in the system, nor a SCADA system. He wanted everything to be hard-wired, and chose the EGCP-3 for a control system.
About the output start command and the cranking signals. I've missed out it's note on the manual (woodward manual 26194), on chapter 9, the starting procedure. It states that "If the control does not see a minimum speed three seconds after energizing the starter relay, the crank attempt will be stopped." It hit me hard then, as the engine is set to do a prelube for five seconds on it's own when it receives the signal to start. So I have to negotiate with Tractors to have the function removed or reduced to one second. Wasn't a very good excuse, but they did remove the function. Now I can start the function test without much problem (I hope).
I will finalise the design with my designer colleague and see if I can post a drawing of the design here.

Thank you once again.

regards
Sherine T.
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Old August 30th, 2005, 01:36 AM   #14
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That is correct with any digital generator controller I have used. The controller looks for pulses from the mag pick up. If no pulses - assume the engine is not rotating or the mag pick up is faulty and shut down. Proper logic with generators.

One controller I use (my favourite) can run without a mag pick up - runs on frequency, but this is not advisable. This same controller can be set up to have 2 mag pick ups and switch from the first to the second if the first becomes faulty.

The best thing you can do is use a 2 pole output on delay timer to run the pre-lube (not much use if there is no power) and then use the second output to start the set. I would suggest DC powered timer from the batteries as AC is no good if there is a power outage. That way the timer would time out evem if there is a power outage and the pre-lube pump could not run.

Think outside the square Sherine.
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Old August 30th, 2005, 03:53 AM   #15
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Bob,
I do not have control over most functions regarding the engine. The panel only give startup/shutdown command, adjust frequency and voltage, synchronise with the utilities and monitor for faults. An idea like yours did cross my mind, Just I would use one of the setting from the EGCP to give it a prelube before crank, but client would want none of it.

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Sherine T.
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