Advanced PLC programing

Could some one please tell me where on line I can find free information on advanced PLC programing? I understand A&B Slic 500 bacics such as inputs, outputs, timmers, counters. I would like to learn more advanced programing. I have the learning pit simulator , and Phil Melore's book. Could some one point me in the corect direction? Thanks

[rsdoran]

Actually you are at one of the best places.

Another would be http://www.mrplc.com

Short of actually taking classes these 2 forums plus the manufacturers forums...in this case http://www.rslogixforum.com are the best source of seeing how the pros do things.

[jvdcande]

Actually you are at one of the best places.

Another would be http://www.mrplc.com

Short of actually taking classes these 2 forums plus the manufacturers forums...in this case http://www.rslogixforum.com are the best source of seeing how the pros do things.

I didn't know we could consider ourselvers the 'pros'. Thought we were only fiddling on with PLC's a little, and some maybe a lot, longer than the others.

Jean Pierre

[TimeFluxCap]

I consider most who post in this forum a pro. I look at it this way. How do you define a pro, the fictitious all knowing master, or everyday engineers and technicians who have deal and solve real problems with real solutions and experiences.

Thank you all so very much for the help. Thanks for taking the time to answer my post.

[john paley]

How do you define a pro, the fictitious all knowing master, or everyday engineers and technicians who have deal and solve real problems with real solutions and experiences.

I define a pro as someone who is paid for his efforts in a particular field of work. So that's me, I guess. Golly!

[eastkodakguy]

http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~jackh/books/plcs/
try this it is pretty much an online textbook that deals with the plc5 and slc500 instructiond
very very useful

[SAK-CO TECH]

Just wanted to thank eastkodakguy for an excellent site. What a find, Can always "brush up" on the other stuff. Thank You

Chris

[TimeFluxCap]

Exactly what Sako said, bloody great resource kodakguy!

[Terry Woods]

Maintenance Man,

What exactly do you consider to be "Advanced PLC Programming"?

As far as I'm concerned, that's like asking "Where can I find out about Advanced Hammer Usage".

All of the tools available for your particular PLC are available in your Programmers Reference Manual.

"Advanced Hammer Usage" is developed when you consider the "SYSTEM" you are trying to build! That means becoming "system-aware". This is a "Top-Down" approach to system control.

It's relatively easy to build a control system that is made up of individual units, modules, soldiers, that might or might not accomplish their particular tasks. That's "Bottom-Up".

What's needed is a hierarchical structure that is over-seeing the big-picture! From my perspective, this is ADVANCED PROGRAMMING - Programming from a System Point-of-View.

BIG NOTE: System Point-of-View is just about, if not exactly, the same as OPERATOR-POINT-OF-VIEW.

Many perceive "indirect addressing" and "bit-manipulations" (using masks) as being ADVANCED. They are certainly higher than common usage, but they are not advanced! Those are listed in the very same manual as the --| |--, --|/|--, ADD, SUB, etc, etc.

It's really, and honestly, just a matter of READING the manual!

Now, as far as a manual for Programming from a "System Point-of-View", there ain't no such manual...
(Mental Note to Self: Write that damned Manual, SOON!).

So, again I ask, What is your idea of Advanced PLC Programming?

[eastkodakguy]

Thanks guys, I guess thats what i get from being a rookie, Whenever I am not working with plcs, I read about them and vice versa.

[Ron Beaufort]

Concerning the general thrust of this thread - it seems like a lot of people ask this same type of question. Even if this little flow chart can’t offer a quick solution - maybe it will at least help define the problem.

[attachment]

The way I see it, a “raw recruit” to the PLC world needs to gain at LEAST the basic abilities which are blocked together under the title “Level 1 Skills”. Specifically, he (or she) MUST have at least a basic understanding of how the PLC hardware fits together - he MUST be able to work on a least a fundamental level with the programming software - he MUST understand the operation of the basic program instructions (such as Examine On, Examine Off, Timers, Counters, etc.) - he MUST have at least a fundamental understanding of how to interpret Ladder Logic programs - and he MUST have at least a basic understanding of how the processor scans and executes the program. If any one of these skills are neglected, then the technician’s effectiveness on the job will be significantly diminished.

Sooner or later the items listed under Level 2 Skills are required of almost every PLC technician. These are the skills associated with analog inputs and outputs. To most students the skills involved in handling these types of signals are significantly different from the “press a button - make a pump run” type of exercises they learned in Level 1 classes. Now the signals are no longer just ones and zeros - they are numbers which range in value from 0 to 4095 - or from 3277 to 16384 - or from 6242 to 31208 - and so on - and so on - and so on. Now the student needs to have his basic math skills in place - these raw signals need to be scaled and converted into temperatures, flow rates, etc. Further, if the platform happens to be an Allen-Bradley PLC-5, then the topic of block transfers rears its ugly head.

Next after analog signals, we come to what most students would consider “advanced programming” skills. Personally, I discourage that term. Secret handshake: The skills in this level are no more “advanced” - nor are they any more difficult to learn - than all of the material which the student has already covered. It’s pretty much like brain surgery - or tying your shoe. Once you UNDERSTAND something (anything) - then you can always look back and say, “Well, that wasn’t so hard after all.” The problem of course lies in gaining that all-important level of understanding. At least that’s my own personal philosophy. Anyway -

Notice that each “block” in the Level 3 Skills category is separated from the others - and represents a separate path. To my way of thinking, once a student has gotten Levels 1 and 2 under his belt - then it’s time to “pick a major” as they say in college. Hopefully the “raw recruit” we started out with in Level 1 has by this time gotten a job working with (or at least around) PLC’s. If so, then the employer is likely to pick the path which the student is required to follow. Simply put - some plants have absolutely NO use for some of these topics - while other plants may DEMAND them. It’s mostly dictated by the type of plant - and by the type of equipment which is being controlled. It would be a good idea to ask around before wading into any one of these particular topics. Don’t get me wrong - ANY knowledge is a good thing - but there is the potential for “wasting” a lot of misdirected time by learning skills which you might NEVER need. As in all areas of life, try to choose your path wisely.

Finally, in putting this down on paper, I tried to arrange the topics under Level 3 Skills in order of increasing complexity. In other words, I personally consider the topic of “Interrupt Routines” to be much easier to learn (certainly it requires much less time) than PID for “Process Control”. I’m sure that some of the “big dogs” on this forum would disagree with this order - and perhaps they will offer new ideas as to how I might improve my little flow chart. As always, I’m open to suggestions.

Anyway - for what it’s worth - that’s the way I see it.

[Allen Nelson]

It all goes back to Terry's question of "What is your idea of Advanced PLC Programming?".

For me, your level one and two are basic, level three is intermediate.
When I took an AB "Intro to PLC programming" course oh-so-many-years-ago, math functions were part of it (built a caluculator with thumbwheels and LED displays).

The Advanced stuff (to me) are the myriad ways of combining the basic commands to do interesting things:

• Using a COP command to make a FIFO.
• Using LBL/JMP to create a For-next loop
• Unlatching a counter's CU bit to have it keep on counting
• Totalizing a flow rate
• Bubble Sort.

just for starters.

I think everyone's definition of "Advanced" will differ. Terry and Jean Pierre probably think K-maps are "Basic". But to those of us who've never used them (or never saw them used the way that Terry can), they seem Advanced.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~ Arthur C. Clarke

[Ron Beaufort]

Precisely, Allen ...

And of course my primary intention was to provide some type of simple “where do I go from here?” roadmap for beginners who haven’t “been there - and done that” yet. In the back of my mind is a well-intentioned and highly dedicated “I’ll-learn-it-on-my-own” type guy whom I met several years ago. By the time I ran into him, he had laboriously worked almost halfway through the Allen-Bradley instruction set ALPHABETICALLY - because that’s the way the manual was laid out. The poor dude spent weeks trying to understand the ASCII instructions - and had no idea what they were used for. And if the truth be known, he’ll probably never have occasion to use them on the job. The point of course is that he could have spent his study time a lot more productively if he had simply asked someone, “Where do I start - and where do I go next?” I think that’s what a lot of the readers of this forum are looking for. Hopefully, my little flowchart will precipitate a dialog which will help direct their paths. And yes, I’m in my “nurturing” phase today.

Thanks for your thoughts ...