Wisconsin Connection for PLC training needed

[vampire]

Anyone on the list live in the SE Wisconsin area?

Does anyone know of a nightcourse in PLC LOGIC at a local tech college. I don't know if there would be prereqs that would hamper attending an introductory course. Any other members in the area have any experiences with these types of courses at MATC or WCTC?

I aquired a GE Fanuc Micro 90 PLC and have LM90 software loaded onto a laptop running XP. Thanks in large part to list member Steve Bailey, the laptop and PLC are communicating with eachother.

Now comes the part where I need to learn Ladder Logic. In principle it seems pretty straight forward, but I'd feel more comfortable taking a night class if one exists.

Any info would be apreciated.

Thanks in advance

Bart

[DickDV]

I know that NTT (National Technology Transfer) puts on three day seminars in Wisconsin that are very good. Actual hands-on practice with PLC's for three days. There are other training organizations that do the same thing.

You can check out NTT at www.nttinc.com

[danw]

Can't answer for SE Wisconsin, but I did attend a community college in Illinois a couple years ago for a basic PLC course. I'll ramble on about it, to give you one person's experience, to see if it sounds suitable for your purposes.

It was OK for what it was. It was very basic: discrete I/O only, timers, counters, basic stage programming and sequencer programming, no analog, no HMI, no data communications, no structured text, no mention of IEC standards. They also covered background things like counting in binary, conversion to hex or octal. The use of calculators was allowed for converting values to different numbering systems.

The "lab" equipment consisted of a few SLC 500 A-B chassis and racks, a couple ancient A-B somethings that used either a DOS program or a handheld mnemonic loader device, [I got the instructor to show me the handheld loader after class, which thrilled him, he fired it up and entered one mnemonic at a time. Aren't we glad for progress . . . . ] and a half dozen TI 500 series (Koyo), which is what I used. All were wired to training panels with some blinkie lights, toggle switches and maybe a momentary switch or two. The whole course worked up to a project which happened to be the proverbial carwash.

The PCs used for program development were old and creaky at the time (Win 98, I think), but worked well enough to accomplish basic PLC programming. The lab where the equipment was was open during the day and evening, and I went 3 or 4 times during non-class times to do work on the project.

At the time, there was only the one basic course, no follow -up for more advanced topics.

There were 3 colleges within driving distance that offered a PLC course but one of them cancelled its PLC course for lack of enrollment. There were about 20 students starting, only 2 or 3 dropped out.

I did have a basic disagreement with the philosophy of the course instructor. I believe in open book because that's the way real people work, at least I do, with the documentation right there, and I use it. And when I hire people I expect them to know how to use documentation. The friction came when the test questions were specifically A-B, and I couldn't remember the exact instruction syntax. My station had the TI, and even on it, I couldn't always remember the exact syntax. That didn't matter during a lab exercise, I'd look it up in the developer Help, but we couldn't use the Help during a test. I contend that part of a PLC course should be to familiarize the students with what the documentation is and how to use it AND to let them use it. But the bureaucratic habits of academics die hard.

For any school, I'd suggest you visit the 'lab' beforehand to see what equipment they're using to see if it's suitable for what you're trying to accomplish.

It sounds like you've got hardware and software already. I wonder if you aren't better off self teaching yourself with a book and some help from the forum and saving the course fees.

The basic of starting a new program, inserting a rung, an I/O point and a coil are simple enough to work through on a forum like this. The course back then was about $600 and nothing's gone down in price over the past several years.

[Christoph]

Sorry can't help you there. But I also would like to better my skills
in programming. I first started in 1986 working with A-B PLC 2/30's
Went to A-B's Classes for this Then in early - mid 90's started
migrating to A-B's plc 5. Attended several of their training classes.
Then the slc's started showing up. Attended several of those classes
as well. Now we have several new systems with Control logix. Attended
1 of the classes. Also 1 automax system, (do not care for tag names)
I like programming with all of these platforms.
and seem to do pretty well. But I still feel I need to improve
on my programming, that is one thing they don't teach is how to
write really effective, comprehensive quality code. where can I
get that kind of training in the USA to better my skill set.

[Tom Jenkins]

MATC has a program in instrumentation and control that includes PLC programming. It is associated with the electronics program.

[Christoph]

Originally Posted by Tom Jenkins

MATC has a program in instrumentation and control that includes PLC programming. It is associated with the electronics program.

What and where is MATC.

[Paully's5.0]

Originally Posted by Christoph

What and where is MATC.

Madison Area Technical College

[Tom Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Christoph

What and where is MATC.

Milwaukee Area Technical College

http://www.matc.edu/

The main campus is in downtown Milwaukee, with additional campuses in Oak Creek and Mequon.

[Rick Densing]

I took MATC's two classes back in '92 at night. They were taught by AB application engineers and worked on the SLC500. Obviously, things could have changed a lot since then.

Here is the course listing. I don't know if the night classes are different.
http://oncampus.matc.edu/catalog/sub...subject=ELCTEC+

[ManFromMars]

I really think your money and time would be better spent here, on the DVD's and support methods. Schools, and Colleges, charge outrageous prices for tuition and books, they waste a lot of time, they are usually mediocre, and their main goal is profit. Furthermore, they are short-sighted and don't see past their noses. If they could see any further, they would realize that honestly helping their students learn, instead of focusing on just getting them certified, would be a benefit to their fellow countrymen (and women), and thus to themselves in the long run.
The owners(s)of this site appear to understand that.

Also, training courses, from places like Allen-Bradley, are a joke. One of them I had attended cost my company $1500.00 for 3 days, and it was outrageous! I was the only student, so they put a trainee, that wasn't very knowledgable, in for my instructor. First day was sales hype, second day flew through all the material, that the instuctor didn't understand, and last day we pigged out at the restaurant and then napped in our cars all afternoon!

[bamaboy]

What I did was to purchase from AutomationDirect, a DL-05. About $99.00. Their programming software is now up to over $200.00. THe original was under $200.00 at the time. I built a small switch box with switch's mounted for PLC inputs and LED's for PLC outputs. You can also not use the external LED's and just observe the PLC status LED's on the PLC.
This will get you going on the basic I/O stuff. There are several option modules that can add analog In/out and other modules.
The support I have had from AutomationDirect has been pretty good. I woudl suggest you check them out. If you don't know where, goggle.
My 10C worth.

[danw]

Originally Posted by ManFromMars

Schools, and Colleges, charge outrageous prices for tuition and books,

I had a 13 week course, once a week, for 4 hours. The lab was open any week day daytime hours and some evenings hours. On 2 occasions, I used the lab during the day, once during the evening outside of scheduled class hours. That's 52 hours of instruction (not counting additional lab time) for $600, roughly $11.53/hour.

The text cost about $80 new. That is not out of line with text books, nor with technical publications in general. The college offers to buy back used texts. eBay, half.com and Amazon.com (among dozens of other text book sites) offer on-line options for purchase if the book store price seems out-of-line.

Why is a figure of $11.53/hour unreasonable for class room instruction?

Originally Posted by ManFromMars

they waste a lot of time,

Classes started on time. Some class time was instruction, some class time was lab work on the PLCs. I don't even recall a formal break time. I suppose one could take a break during the lab. Class continued until scheduled finish time. I suppose anyone can goof off, and waste his own time, but there was no wasted time in a structural sense in the course I took. I consider myself an expert on wasted time, having wasted 3 years of my life in the US Army, from induction to discharge.

Originally Posted by ManFromMars

they are usually mediocre,

The course was exactly as described in the course summary published in the catalog. It was a course for beginners. It covered some topics that I already knew, like number systems (binary, hex, decimal) or boolean, but that doesn't diminish the quality of the class or the instruction. The course covered what the summary said it was going to cover.

Mediocre means barely adequate, poor or inferior.
The community college course I took was none of those. It fulfilled its obligation according to its course description and reasonable expectations of what can be accomplished in 52 hours of instruction.

Originally Posted by ManFromMars

and their main goal is profit.

While I disagree philosophically with a lot that our community college does, I would have to acknowledge that profit is not their primary or even secondary goal, hence the heavy tax subsidies it receives.

For those courses that are for-profit, thankfully they are there to offer the opportunity to those who wish to avail themselves. I personally think that intensive immersion in a topic is not my particular style for learning, but that's a choice attendees make up front, knowing what the curriculum covers and the time span given for it.

Originally Posted by ManFromMars

Furthermore, they are short-sighted and don't see past their noses. If they could see any further, they would realize that honestly helping their students learn, instead of focusing on just getting them certified, would be a benefit to their fellow countrymen (and women), and thus to themselves in the long run.

The course desciption was well defined, hence no short-sightedness on their part. They understood their capabilities and expectations and expressed them precisely. There was no certification offered in the course I took, nor was it offered in the other PLC courses in the other community colleges nor at Norhtern Illinois, a state university. The purpose is not certification, it is instruction and practice in basic PLC logic and programming.

Originally Posted by ManFromMars

The owners(s)of this site appear to understand that.

I don't know what this site's owners' opinion is on schools and courses offering PLC instruction. I'll the owners speak for themselves.

I do not concur with a blanket condemnation of PLC courses from brick and mortar schools for the reasons cited, having attended one in recent years.

[jprindle]

Originally Posted by Tom Jenkins

Milwaukee Area Technical College

http://www.matc.edu/

The main campus is in downtown Milwaukee, with additional campuses in Oak Creek and Mequon.

I always wondered why the Madison Area Technical College and Milwaukee Area Technical College are both MATC (I know it gets confusing at times). I used to be on the advisory comittee for the Madison MATC for their Industrial Maintenance Program, and the last time I was there, they had improved their PLC arsenal. If you are closer to Madison, it might be worth a phone call.