TI-565 programming software questions

Good day all.
I have just undertaken a new project with an existing TI-565.
I have worked extensively with AB and Omorn, but have only modifed one TI in my career.

The customer gave me a CD with the latest revision (as far as he knows). The contents are listed below. I cannot open any of (the obvious) files with my TI505 DOS software (rev. 1989). I have no access to the actual PLC for another month, it's on its way to Peru where I will meet it for the first time.

Question:
Can a newer version of the software open this and do a "Save As" so my old software will read it?
I am not ready to shell out the estimated $3000 for TI software for one job, is there a trial or demo version available? I've downloaded Fastrak 505 Workshop, but have not yet tried it.

Is there a way to identify the PLC model from the ladder source code? I was told it's a 565.

In this case I would rather be 'safe than sorry', as even $3k is cheaper than a return trip home from Peru with nothing accomplished...

RT

Directory of H:\Peru\223

2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> .
2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> ..
2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> 223
2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> VORNE
2002-10-21 06:00 AM 54,272 223.ALM
2002-10-21 05:31 AM 27 223.APP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 54,784 223.BAK
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 4 223.BWP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 2,560 223.CCP
1996-03-29 02:23 AM 1,140 CHART1.CH5
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.CIP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.CJP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 23,123 223.CMT
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.CSP
2002-10-21 05:59 AM 2,048 223.KMM
2002-10-21 05:59 AM 57,344 223.LOP
2002-10-21 05:55 AM 115,712 223.PFB
2002-10-21 06:04 AM 40,448 223.PGM
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 420 223.PRT
2002-10-21 05:31 AM 6,635 223.SCP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 10,223 223.SIP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.SJP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 2,048 223.SKP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 4 223.STP
2002-10-21 06:04 AM 19,200 223.SUB
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 20,480 223.SVP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 3,075 223.SWP
2002-10-21 05:31 AM 90,991 223.SYN
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 973 223.TTL
2002-10-21 05:59 AM 10,240 223.VMM
2002-10-21 06:05 AM 54,784 223.VP5
27 File(s) 574,631 bytes

Directory of H:\Peru\223\223

2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> ..
2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> .
2002-10-21 06:00 AM 54,272 223.ALM
2002-10-21 05:31 AM 27 223.APP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 54,784 223.BAK
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 4 223.BWP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 2,560 223.CCP
1996-03-29 02:23 AM 1,140 CHART1.CH5
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.CIP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.CJP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 23,123 223.CMT
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.CSP
2002-10-21 05:59 AM 2,048 223.KMM
2002-10-21 05:59 AM 57,344 223.LOP
2002-10-21 05:55 AM 115,712 223.PFB
2002-10-21 06:04 AM 40,448 223.PGM
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 420 223.PRT
2002-10-21 05:31 AM 6,635 223.SCP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 10,223 223.SIP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 1,024 223.SJP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 2,048 223.SKP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 4 223.STP
2002-10-21 06:04 AM 19,200 223.SUB
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 20,480 223.SVP
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 3,075 223.SWP
2002-10-21 05:31 AM 90,991 223.SYN
1997-09-10 11:31 AM 973 223.TTL
2002-10-21 05:59 AM 10,240 223.VMM
2002-10-21 06:05 AM 54,784 223.VP5
27 File(s) 574,631 bytes

Directory of H:\Peru\223\VORNE

2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> ..
2008-11-28 11:54 AM <DIR> .
2002-10-03 01:11 AM 64 VDP.CFG
1989-01-16 10:48 AM 120,971 VDP.EXE
1990-03-22 05:49 PM 6,197 PHAZER.MSG
2002-10-21 02:24 AM 893 223TCF60.MSG
2002-10-03 01:07 AM 967 VDP.PIF
1989-01-16 10:48 AM 31,601 VDP.RES
6 File(s) 160,693 bytes

Total Files Listed:
61 File(s) 1,309,955 bytes
11 Dir(s) 1,481,953,280 bytes free

Hi

All the file extensions seem correct and as expected for a 565. For example, -
*.VP5 holds all the ladder instructions,
*.LOP holds all the PID loop configurations,
*.ALM holds all the analog alarm configurations,
*.VMM holds all the V-memory (variable memory)
*.KMM holds all the K-memory (constant memory)
...etc.

Unfortunately, these could also be valid for a 545 or a 555 CPU. The 565 was a very much older beast than either of these so your software revision may not be 'new' enough to comprehend the memory config etc if it turns out to be based on either of these. Siemens do still have various downloads for the 545 and 555 CPUs at http://www2.sea.siemens.com/Products/Automation/Programmable-Controllers/Programmable-Controllers-SIMATIC-505-Downloads.htm but none of these applies to the 565.

Do you know what release of the DOS software you have (TISOFT)?
My memory tells me the final release of this was 7.something. I knew I should have held on to a copy!

The Softshop/Workshop software should be able to read these files, but without a legitimate hardware key you will not be able to edit etc. It will be read-only mode. Still, that should move things slightly further forward.

One other thing. I seem to remember many years ago when bright shiny plastic things called CDs were just making an entrance that TISOFT had a problem with them. Try copying the files to a hard drive, and ensure the read-only attribute is unset on all of them before trying to use TISOFT.

There are one of two old TI-users (sorry, that shouldn't be old TI-users, it should be old TI users!) lurking on this forum. Help may arrive.

Yes, the files look valid. I still use Tisoft and Workshop both, and support three 565 platforms. (Was going to be upgrading two of them, but that has been delayed again).
First thing, what version of TiSoft do you have? Can you find out what version the PLC is running?

In a nut shell the software "changed" with TiSoft 5.0, so anything before 5.0 has to be "converted" to be opened with 5.0 and later. (Tisoft 5.0 came with the conversion program) Workshop only works with 5.0 and later. I believe there was two versions after 5.0; 6.3 and 7.1 Workshop may have the conversion tool in the full version, can't remember.

If you have TiSoft 5.0 or later, you are good to go, just convert, and then open.

Warning: Do not purchase Workshop505 for use the the 565's. Many of the features do not work (such as the find function) unless the 565's firmware is the latest version.

There is a way to see how the memory is configured and such, when you get to the point where you can open the software, I'll step you through it.

Do you have a system layout? How many Remote Channel Controllers (RCC) and Remote Base Controllers (RBC) are in the system, each RCC adds memory to the system. If it is a 565, there will be no local I/O, all I/O is remote.

The 565's do not support a lot of the newer instructions that the 545 and 555 have, they can still do the job, just takes a little longer and you may have to be creative.

If you can zip the files and post here, I'll take a quick peek, and tell you what you have.


Ken Moore

I still have a customer with a working 565, and even an old 575 VPU, along with numerous 545s and 555s. I can probably lay my hands on old versions of TISOFT if needed.

Okay, found my copy of Tisoft 5.1, here are the steps to determine what processor you have.
1. Open the program file offline.
2. Goto the Configure memory screen CONFME-F2, if you do not see this option, press the space bar, this toggles the F-key functions.
3. This screen has the PLC type in the upper left hand corner, it will also show how the memory is configured, 565's have 352 Kbytes of usable memory. It may or may not all be configured.

The F-3 key if for I/O configuration, this will show you how many bases you have and if you dig deeper, exactly what memory addresses are assigned to each card. FYI 505 controllers only have one I/O table, X's and Y's occupy the same table, so if you have an X1 you cannot have a Y1, since they both reference the same spot in the table, same goes for the Word addresses., you cannot have a WX100 and a WY100.

My TISOFT 2 for the 505 family is version 6.01. I had used it for less than 3 hours total.

I have on the first splash screen, EXIT ONLINE COLOR PGMS and OFFLINE with 223 above the OFFLINE.

If I press the F8 for OFFLINE, I get "INCORRECT FILE FORMAT"
When I pick PGMS, DIR, the only choice I see is 223 (I don't know which extension, though - I guess the .VP5?

I did copy it off the CD, it is in a directory on the same HDD as the TISOFT.

I do not know how many remote racks there are, yet, I believe there are 9. The only unit of the 9 I have access to is the drive cabinet. Oh, by the way, it is an old Harris printing press.

I suspect that it was uploaded and saved in a newer version, I will post it here. Thanks for looking!

Rob

I opened it with Workshop, no problems. It is a 565 with 12 Remote I/O racks configured. What do you need to know? Good thing, it appears to be fully synonymed and commented.

I can open it with Workshop also. There are 15 remote bases, 12 on channel 1, and 3 on channel 2.

The ladder has descriptions but not rung comments, there about 50 or so Special function programs which have no comments. There are no PID loops configured.

I tried to open the file with Tisoft Ver. 5, and got the same message you did.
However I was able to open it with Tisoft 7.1. So looks like you need Tisoft 7.1 to edit the program.

Will the version that saved the program be on site? Do you need to make changes or just start up the old program? You can use the workshop software to view and study the code in demo mode, no cost.


Ken

Thanks Robert, thanks Ken!

I will fire up workshop, and have calls out now to a TI distributor and FasTrak to find my most economical option.

I will have to make some changes while on-site, so would obviously prefer to get aquainted before going.

Ken Moore said:

I can open it with Workshop also. There are 15 remote bases, 12 on channel 1, and 3 on channel 2.

The ladder has descriptions but not rung comments, there about 50 or so Special function programs which have no comments. There are no PID loops configured.

I tried to open the file with Tisoft Ver. 5, and got the same message you did.
However I was able to open it with Tisoft 7.1. So looks like you need Tisoft 7.1 to edit the program.

Will the version that saved the program be on site? Do you need to make changes or just start up the old program? You can use the workshop software to view and study the code in demo mode, no cost.


Ken

Click to expand...

Ha....Good catch on channel 2...I forgot those beasties had two RIOs.

The program does have some comments, especially towards the end, where it looks like some recent revisions/additions were made.

I have one very large system with four I/O channels , two RCC's are used.

Ken (and the other repliers)

I now have TIsoft2 rev 7.1 supplied kindly by my local distributor! I can load and edit the ladder (still don't know *anything* about the SFs yet - I hope not to have to touch them.)

I have a laptop with XP, and a PCMCIA serial card. It is already set to COM1. It works with every other serial device I have plugged in - Omron CPUs, various drives, etc. (I've not tried it with an A-B PIC, though.)

Major question:
How do you (yous) connect to your TIs?
If I must, I will take an old Win98 laptop instead of my powerhouse, but I must know that I can connect with one or the other before I take the trip. I am currently asking around for someone to let me connect to a CPU...

I currently use Desktop PC's running WinNt 4.0. (Don't laugh, they're 10 years newer than the PLC)

In the past I have had poor luck with laptops, regardless of OS, I believe it's because the laptop serial ports are under powered. Never tried a PCMCIA serial card, so do not know anything about them. There are serial port boosters available, may need to buy one.

I would most definitely test on 565 before I traveled.

Recommend you go here: http://www2.sea.siemens.com/Product.../Programmable-Controllers-SIMATIC-505-Manuals

And download a few things you might need.

Thank you Ken.
I did get a call back from the same distributor, he has a 545 he said I could try. It's not the same CPU, even a different cable, but at least I can try my communications.

Recommend you down load the system manual for the 575, it is very similar to the 565. You will need to look at the dip switches on the front of the CPU to determine the serial baud rate.