PLC-2 project given a go. OH NO!

[JesperMP]

The safety aspect of this old machine and the ignorance and pigheadedness of the endcustomer worries me. Be sure to have in writing that you are not responsible for the safety of the machine.

I know, it is not relevant to the discussion about the PLC-2, but if I could not get such a written statement, I would back out if I were you.
As far as I understand, by US law you are personally liable. (correct ?).

[The Plc Kid]

I would avoid this job like the plague. Nothing wrong with declining work when it does not fit or may be damaging to your buisness.

I have fired several bad customers and I would advise you to do the same.

Just refuse the job if they don't want to be sensible and safe about it.

This is one of those that in most cases ends up costing you more than you make on the job.

[OZEE]

Unfortunately, Skiroy may not have that luxury... I'm guessing he works there, that he's not an outside-integrator.

[Rob A]

Staying with the PLC2 is a recipe for disaster. We still have a lot of machines in the field with PLC2's and our service guys are instructed NOT to connect to them. Being an obsolete processor if the processor died while we were connected to it we owned it. So we would be doing a conversion to PLC5 for Free.

[Lancie1]

As far as I understand, by US law you are personally liable. (correct ?).

Yes, to the extent of your assets. If you have $1 million or more, the plaintiff's lawyers will go after you. If you have nothing much, they will go after your employer, the vendor, suppliers, the insurance company, and on up the line until they find enough money to make it worth starting a court case.

[Helliana]

Originally Posted by Skiroy

So this software does not utilize visual symbols to drag and drop on arung and then enter the addressing link RS Logix 500. And though I am okay on Rs Logix 500 I am not good enough to rewrite this program in a new language. Thats why I thought it would be easier to just visual copy everything I see in the print out.

So this is not the case?

Definantly not the case! It would be alot easier to translate the printout to Logix500 using a Micrologix1400 than figure out all the PLC-2 intricacies and dealing with the old DOS-Based software, especially if you aren't familiar with it.

[Lancie1]

So this software does not utilize visual symbols to drag and drop on a rung...

The PLC2 DOS software used function keys to pick items from menus - no mouse, no pointing and clicking.

[Skiroy]

Im afraid I have no power here. I am technically a Machinist that has the unpaid luxury to do maintenance on the machines here. I take very opportunity to do automation maintenance as I am entry level. Im in a small city in Florida where Automation let alone employement opportunities are scare. As bad as this place is I am one of the lucky ones to not have to work as a machine operator or at a fast food or hospitality job. I have a 2 year degree in automation and honestly my experience with PLC programming is limited to what I did at school.

They are going to do what they want. In fact I told them today that I dont think its at all what I was trained on and its not symbol drag and drop programming and the addressing is way different than what I know. I offered up the possibility of getting the software and copying it manually but this was before I knew how different the programming was.

Remember I wasnt saying I could re write the program just copy it based on the PLC program print out we have, which looked rung based so I figure would be very similar. I since have told the guy that calls the shots on projects like this and maintenance(which to tell you how small and unorganized this place is,its the Quality guy);that I dont think I can do it. He said he thinks its not that bad and that between me and him we can do it,even though he has zero programming experience and I have school level experience. He is a good old boy that would try and design a aircraft without knowing college Algebra and say" lets not over analyze it, we not building a space shuttle". I dont mean to sound arrogant because I drop out of Engineering because I hated all the Calculous. I just mean to say this is the type of guy that will take something on he has no idea how much is involved and it becomes a lost attempt and he will find some other reason to why it failed besides him. There are no checks and balances here. Im just the Machinist that secretly they wouldnt even attempt to do alot of the projects they have been talking about lately without me being here,but will always down play as just the Machinist.


Long story short I have no other options yet and I am using this place for experience to get to the next level. I rather not even attempt this project as it is obsolete technology and really wont help me in the future but if they are going to do it anyways and I can have something to do other that machining braze fixtures( which is irrelevant to my field) that hey, whats the harm? They cant and wont hold me responsible. I advised them not to do it today. His response was he thinks we(by we, he means me and he will take credit) can do it and at worst he we only be out a $1000.00 for parts and software. He hasnt thought how much time its going to take me to figure it out(If I can) and do all the other things that are required out of the only Machinist/Maintenance Technician on a whole shift. Oh I do some quality stuff like adjust programs for parts to. And all for $12.00 an hour. Yeahits that bad here.


Sorry for the long posts got caught up. Just want you guys to know how helpless I am in this situation. And I will work on getting the electronic copy online. Honestly, knowing that there is no drag and drop I and dreading I even opened my mouth. I am hoping the guy that wrote this made it drag and drop.

http://plc2software.com/products.html

Im aware of the concern of it not being the programming software and that the product being offered is simply software for the cable to be able to be used. I contacted them today.

Thankx

[Lancie1]

Remember I wasnt saying I could re write the program just copy it based on the PLC program print out we have, which looked rung based so I figure would be very similar.

With a print-out of the PLC2 program, you have a slight advantage. With the copy (make a dozen and save them in various safe places) you can get it converted to a PLC5 or even SLC 500 program if necessary. There was even some old Allen Bradley software that did the PLC2-to-PLC5 conversion.

Really, you can probably figure out the PLC2 software, once you study the addressing scheme for a while.

How many pages is your print-out?

So they got a new PLC and I/O units and the software and want me to get it running.

Make a close inspection of that software. If it is the old DOS version, you may have a problem finding a computer with the DOS operating system to run it on. Until you have that in hand, there is no need to worry about learning the software. If you do get to that stage, there are still several old former PLC2 users on this site that can help you with the software instructions.

[Skiroy]

Thankx. Has anyone here used TOPDOC or PLC workshop? I have read that they both support PLC-2 and they are drag and drop. Awesome. I suprised these havent been brought up. Does anyone know which one is more user friendly?

I emailed the vendors about the adressing and the issue on no Timers. I read something about the PLC-2 didnt use the TON type timers Im used to. Im feeling a little better now.

By the way the there are 31 pages of code and another 5 of the I/O I.D.s and what rungs they were used in. There is no comments but all the Inputs and Outputs are labeled in each rung. One thing off the bat I see that I dont reconize is for example on the Outputs there are a list of numbers such as

CYCLE
START
STOR.BIT
020.00
---------------------------------( )--
5 -15
29 -29
-30 -31
34 35

What does this mean?
Is STOR.BIT like a dummy bit in memory?
What is 020.00 mean? I thought the 0 was for output and the 1 was for Inputs like 110.17 on the "MOTOR START PB". Is this correct? Where can I start getting information on the I/O addressing?

Thankx

[jrwb4gbm]

See this thread for addressing info:
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthr...9751&highlight

[Lancie1]

What is 020.00 mean? I thought the 0 was for output and the 1 was for Inputs like 110.17 on the "MOTOR START PB". Is this correct?

For a PLC2, 020/00 = Output at I/O Rack 2, Group 0, Terminal Number 0.
Your address 020.00 looks more like a PLC5 address.

PLC-2 I/O addressing takes the form:

abc / dd

where a = module type: 1 = input, 0 = output

b = I/O rack no. 1-7 (model & addressing type (1/2, 1,2) dependant)
c = I/O group no. 0-7 (octal)
dd = terminal no. 00-17 (octal)

[Skiroy]

Are you telling me the printout they sent with this machine is not even for this machine because the PLC is a PLC 2/15?

[OkiePC]

Originally Posted by Skiroy

Thankx. Has anyone here used TOPDOC or PLC workshop?

My counterpart at work rarely comes to the forum, but he actually wrote a VB app many years ago that would convert PLC2 code to PLC5 code. He said he spent months going over all the possibilities for the entire instruction set and addressing schemes, he said he covered messaging and everything, but doesn't think he has all that old code stashed away still.

Anyway, he really praised either Topdoc or Icom. I think it was Icom. I will point him at this thread Monday, and see if he may be able to help. Knowing Mike, he will fire up a dusty old server and find his old code.

Anyway, if you can preserve that printout, perhaps even scan it with OCR capable scanner, you have at best what sounds like limited solid documentation for this machine, so in my opinion, you should call in someone with experience with the PLC2 as well as converting them to assist you. At least you should get some quotes and free advise if possible. Your local Rockwell Automation supplier might be a great place to start.

[Mickey]

If you don't already have this link..

http://www.softplc.com/oldtopdoc.php