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Old August 2nd, 2012, 08:40 AM   #1
sweetjohnny
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press and hold

I need some instruction help in logix5ooo. Here is my question, I have a button on a screen (rsview) for lets say a drain valve. The problem is some of the operators mistake pushing this instead of the inlet valve button, I would like to have them press and hold this button for say two seconds so they are forced to acknowledge what the button says and that it is the correct button. What instruction would I use?
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 08:46 AM   #2
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First, I would put clear labels on ALL buttons.

Then if I still needed the enable delay, I would reprogram the button in the RSLogix 5000 program so that it starts a timer, and the timer does not enable the button function (what it does) until the display time has passed. Two seconds may be too short. It takes maybe a second to read the pop-up label and about 1.5 seconds for the average person to respond (connect brain to finger muscles), so 3 seconds may be closer to what you need.

If you only have access to the RSView program (not the PLC program) then you can create a Derived Tag for the button. The Derived Tag will be an expression for Time delay & Old button. You will have to be able to rename the new Derived Tag with the same name as the old tag, otherwise the exisiting PLC program will not use it.

Last edited by Lancie1; August 2nd, 2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 08:56 AM   #3
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If possible a visual representation of the vessel with the button placed at the approximate position of these valves. This can be in addition to the time delay requested.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:13 AM   #4
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Putting clean and understandable labels on the buttons was the first thing I did. It is also the same on the graphic. I guess i was over thinking this, a timer. Brain ****. Thank you guys.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:14 AM   #5
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Evidently the common term for flatulence is frowned upon in this forum. Sorry.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:53 AM   #6
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Pop Up Confirmation

As we all know...operators will in time ignore all indications on the screen no matter how clear they are. New operators are better at pressing the correct button because they will read the text. Once it becomes habit they get ignored the same as alerts and alarms.

I suggest using a pop up that confirms what button they just pressed. It doesn't add much to the operation but allows them to read the pop up screen and confirm their choice. This will not eliminate errors only reduce them.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 10:08 AM   #7
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One thing I like to do with new HMI screens is to make on that I think is clearly labeled then give it to the operator for a day and ask what he thinks the buttons should be named, and ask why he would hit the wrong button. Operator feedback does half my HMI design and improvement for me. This method is convenient for me cause my office is on plant floor 100 feet from my equipment. (and as a new guy i have the time to ask what they think)
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 10:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Once it becomes habit they get ignored the same as alerts and alarms.
Once the operators know what a button does, there is no need for them to read the label. Adding a confirmation just adds to operator frustration. An efficient program does not resort to such tactics unless the button controls a life-or-death situation.

Quote:
Operator feedback does half my HMI design and improvement for me.
That is a very effective method. Customer feedback (whomever the customer may be) is always a useful tool. If you don't know what the customer wants, then you are guessing based on your opinions. Your opinions don't count for much unless you are willing to use your product for 24 hours non-stop. I once told that to a doctor who was prescribing a CPAP torture machine for me. I asked him if he had ever used this machine, and he said "no, why should I?" I said so that you know what the he!! you are talking about.

Last edited by Lancie1; August 2nd, 2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 10:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Once the operators know what a button does, there is no need for them to read the label. Adding a confirmation just adds to operator frustration. An efficient program does not resort to such tactics unless the button controls a life-or-death situation.
If the operator is accidentally pressing the wrong button the best program in the world will not stop the error from happening. You apply the confirmation popup only where the application calls for it. Just like everything else in automating equipment...you use the right tools for the right function. I was not implying everything has a confirmation popup.

Last edited by gscure; August 2nd, 2012 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Operator frustration
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 10:50 AM   #10
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Sometimes frustrating the operator is exactly what needs to happen when they get lazy at what they do. This does happen and it is a huge problem. Not all operators and not all applications but can be effective.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:13 PM   #11
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I work write a text when the button is press to pop up saying " open the drain valve? and ok at the bottom of it, i see a lot of hmi have this and it's idiot proof.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 11:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinej View Post
I work write a text when the button is press to pop up saying " open the drain valve? and ok at the bottom of it, i see a lot of hmi have this and it's idiot proof.
Never underestimate the power of the latest and greatest idiot. They come out with new versions much faster than we can make the patches!

I have used the same method on crowded screens, or where the wrong button press can cause serious problems. Invariably, operators will complain about the extra button presses, though. It's a double-edged sword.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 05:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetjohnny View Post
I need some instruction help in logix5ooo. Here is my question, I have a button on a screen (rsview) for lets say a drain valve. The problem is some of the operators mistake pushing this instead of the inlet valve button, I would like to have them press and hold this button for say two seconds so they are forced to acknowledge what the button says and that it is the correct button. What instruction would I use?
Try to be pro-active with the system...

There will be times when it is appropriate to open the inlet valve - say when the tank is empty, and times when it might be inappropriate to open the inlet valve - say when the tank already has some contents. Similar thing for the drain valve.

Design pop-up confirmations to appear only when the action may be inappropriate, and bubba will soon learn what button to press at the relevant time. If you ask him if "Are you sure" every time, he'll just get used to saying yes.

But if he learns that he can avoid a pop-up by thinking about which button to press - he'll get the right one every time.

This is a strategy that does work - I've seen it in action
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 06:44 PM   #14
Liam Moran
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I have found that setting up an operator log, and making the operator aware of this, significantly reduces errors. They will never press the wrong button if they will be held accountable.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 08:19 PM   #15
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For something like this, a pop up with two widely spaced and clearly labelled buttons. Confirm/execute the action or cancel (close popup). Then they are only burdened with one more button press, so you have given them an opportunity to think twice, which may reduce the erorrs, but you can't fix all human errors, so don't make it too difficult to operate.
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Last edited by OkiePC; August 3rd, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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