How's the job market where you live?

I wanted to hire a guy that could help with controls and wouldn't think building control panels was below them. I interviewed 2 guys out of a EE and neither one of them could design a motor start stop circuit. One of them told me that is what electricians do. He handles high level controls and he could calculate the magnetic field around motor. I explained to him that calculating the magnetic field wasn't useful unless you could start the motor and make it run.

I hired a young man just out of high school what wants to learn. I realized that I really enjoy teaching this young man.

That's one of the things I've heard about BSEEs. They're educated and trained to design and build chips and circuitboards, but tell a recent graduate to design a panel or write a PLC program with analog IO and they'll be clueless.

Obviously having the background information about electronics and electricity is useful, but too many employers think a BSEE means you're a fully trained controls/automation engineer ready to hit the ground running without any training and that just isn't so.
 
I agree the young man I hired just out of high school doesn't this anything is beneath he. I got the feeling that the recent EE grads only wanted to do project management or desk work . I am NOT saying all of our classes and training programs are going that way. I am saying the 2 guys I interviewed where not a good fit for my company.
 
The notion that an EE degree should be a prerequisite for a controls engineering position is misguided. When you think about the decisions a controls engineer needs to make, you realize the subjects covered in the ME curriculum are at least as important as the topics covered in the EE curriculum. My degree is in mechanical engineering and I'm pretty sure that goes for Tom Jenkins as well. If either he or I applied for a controls engineering position that listed an EE degree as a requirement, neither of us would get invited for an interview.
The curriculum for any engineering degree should include the basic sciences and the mathematics to necessary to understand the relationships between the variables. The founding document for the engineering school I graduated from stated its mission as "for the purpose of instructing persons, who may choose to apply themselves, in the application of science to the common purposes of life".
 
Personally I think you guys that are hiring all "DEGREED" applicants are on the wrong track.
I have a red seal ticket in Industrial Electrical, Construction Electrical and many years experience in Instrumentation and controls. The last few years I have been studying PLC's. I know now that I have the ability to learn any new concept challenged to me. I can design a basic control system, build the panel and program. I am not saying I rule the world but when placed beside the my corporate electrical engineer for a project, I can wire and program circles around him. He has a hard time running a screw driver most of the time and can't interpret the schematics without me explaining every circuit to him. Not to mention the last new machine he sent me was a disaster that personally I would be ashamed to put my name on. So when my company posted for a "corporate" PLC tech in our sister plants,(with a ridiculous salary) I asked when I would get my title. I was told that although I have been meeting the requirements of the position and living up to the expectations of the position I did not meet the qualifications of having an EE degree. So I have resigned. Now they hire me at twice the rate to work on their PLC's and control system projects, and the best part is I am my own boss.
In short, I think that a lot of the EE have 0 practical experience. If you want somebody who can troubleshoot and use a computer you should look at some of the more well rounded industrial electricians who should have a fair shot.

"My two cents worth"
 
The best system intergrator I have ever worked with where all ME.
I wanted someone whocould learn mechanical and electrical. He starts his electrical apprenticeship this year.

I couldn't agree more about being well rounded
 
Personally I think you guys that are hiring all "DEGREED" applicants are on the wrong track.
I have a red seal ticket in Industrial Electrical, Construction Electrical and many years experience in Instrumentation and controls. The last few years I have been studying PLC's. I know now that I have the ability to learn any new concept challenged to me. I can design a basic control system, build the panel and program. I am not saying I rule the world but when placed beside the my corporate electrical engineer for a project, I can wire and program circles around him. He has a hard time running a screw driver most of the time and can't interpret the schematics without me explaining every circuit to him. Not to mention the last new machine he sent me was a disaster that personally I would be ashamed to put my name on. So when my company posted for a "corporate" PLC tech in our sister plants,(with a ridiculous salary) I asked when I would get my title. I was told that although I have been meeting the requirements of the position and living up to the expectations of the position I did not meet the qualifications of having an EE degree. So I have resigned. Now they hire me at twice the rate to work on their PLC's and control system projects, and the best part is I am my own boss.
In short, I think that a lot of the EE have 0 practical experience. If you want somebody who can troubleshoot and use a computer you should look at some of the more well rounded industrial electricians who should have a fair shot.

"My two cents worth"

A lot of the ads I've seen are for a BSEE with x years of experience. The problem is, it seems the guys who have the experience don't have a degree because we were too busy getting the experience! I think the BSEE with 10 years of experience may exist, but is most likely only slightly less rare than a unicorn, or bigfoot.

That said, I recently got called by a recruiter for a job that required a BSEE. I told her I don't have one. She said it doesn't matter because they'd changed the requirements. They hired a recent EE grad and he couldn't even lay out a panel. Now they'd rather have someone with more experience and the lack of a degree is not a deal-breaker.
 
I find that most University courses are setup to train the students a predetermined amount of knowledge. then let the 'Graduates' decide where to further their carrier.
From my own experience, electrical control panels were worked on by Electricians (4 year apprenticeship %90 hands on)
the Industrial side was taught in the field as with wiring panels.
EE or ME were not involved although when the cooling or heating factors might become an issue they would be queried.

The major limitation here is that Only 'A' Grade Licensed Electricians are permitted to work on (LV) voltages above 50Vac (ELV)
The higher voltages are the territory of EE or specifically qualified peope
 
My experience is that the "control" field is so niche that the job market for us is not efficient unlike say, programming/IT for tech world. I mean that our pay really doesn't equate with the value you provide. I have seen both extremes where someone is way overpaid and some way underpaid.

If you are willing to be flexible, willing to relocate and also network, you can always get better pay then again, I'm past the point where I would want to move because I like the other aspect of my life around here.
 
I've only been in the industry for 3 years and I've already gotten 13+ job offers, all of them equal or more pay than I am currently making. I've been BEGGED to work for certain companies, ranging from Mexico, Alabama, Tennessee, Indiana, Michigan, and here (Ontario). There seems to be a shortage industry wide. I think the hours turn most people off (automotive).
 
Personally I think you guys that are hiring all "DEGREED" applicants are on the wrong track.[...]
I won't say they are necessarily on the wrong track, but they shouldn't close their eyes to other possibilities. I think its okay when hiring someone right out of school to look at their degree. It is a whole 'nother thing to look a someone mid-career. Are classes taken twenty years ago more relevant than what a person is doing now?

I'll admit I have some holes in my education. But then again I bet you I could have finished my degree and have holes as well because you can't learn everything in a classroom either.

I was told that although I have been meeting the requirements of the position and living up to the expectations of the position I did not meet the qualifications of having an EE degree. So I have resigned.
Good for you!

I was in a similar situation. I applied for a promotion at where I was working. I got a lot of push back because I didn't have the degree.

They asked, "Why not?"

"Because I've been here actually doing the job you are hiring for. I literally helped build this place from the ground up."

They gave the promotion to someone I had been training for the previous three months because he had a degree (computer science not EE).

I quit on the spot when they told me. Had a new job even before I left.

They lost more than a decade of "corporate knowledge." For what? A piece of paper. A few computer science classes.
 
Always an interesting conversation, my group is a mix of 4 year degree'd engineers and 2 year technical graduates. Probably 30/70 mix, primarily due to not being able to find qualified people, so we are pulling from the local technical school.

First and foremost, 4 year or 2 year, you have to have the "knack" for industrial automation. If you don't, it will show and I think because there really isn't (at least to my knowledge) a true "Automation Engineer" discipline in the university's it's that much harder for an employer to find the right "fit" for their organization if looking for a 4 year candidate. My my graduating class, I can count less than a handful of people that where looking for a job as a "Controls Engineer".

I only discovered the career through a Co-op program I did during my schooling.

The other factor, you have to be a very "driven" person to continuously learning this industry, 4 year or not. If a person doesn't have that trait, it will show.

I believe that anyone with any type of engineering degree should be considered a candidate, not just EE. So Engineering Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Computer Science. I've meet good Control's Engineers with these backgrounds. It is unfortunate to see a company localize their recruiting, our organization is guilty of it, one of the reasons we struggle to find candidates.

I in my organization at least (Systems Integration), I am finding a "plateau" that our 2 year technical grads hit. They can program PLCs (to an extent), and produce basic SCADA systems. Beyond that they have trouble embracing/learning advanced concepts...scripting languages, databases, network architectures, servers, advanced math functions, PLC development (in-terms of creating code that meets the our software standard ideology), project management (financial tracking, communication to other parties, proper reports). The variety of courses the 4 year grad takes better equips them to handle the "non-PLC" responsibilities of a Controls Engineers.

There is a clear difference between 4 and 2 year grads concerning MS Office. Excel can be an extremely powerful tool, if you know how to use it.

That's my take, and again, things I mentioned can be overcome by anyone who is driven enough, but generally speaking that is what I am seeing first hand.
 

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