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Old April 28th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #1
d_tech
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Studio 5000 v21.xxx

Cant seem to find much info on Studio 5000 v21.011. What is the difference with v21.11??
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Old April 28th, 2015, 10:02 PM   #2
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Compared to what/which?

btw, v21.03.01 is available.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 12:17 AM   #3
Ken Roach
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Have you ever watched a cat get really, really good and high off catnip ? That's how software product managers get with sub-revision numbers. The only thing worse is sub-sub revision numbers.

Studio 5000 v21.011 = v21.11

The leading zero was added for reasons that are beyond our comprehension, and are frequently omitted for reasons that are mysteries.

As for 21.03.01... you know, I'm not going to try to explain it myself. I'm going to just link to Shawn Tierney's excellent description of how the ".03" revisions aren't compatible with the ".01" revisions for v20 and v21.

http://theautomationblog.com/what-yo...version-20-03/

http://theautomationblog.com/seven-t...-rslogix-5000/
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Old April 29th, 2015, 06:20 AM   #4
d_tech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstolaruk View Post
Compared to what/which?

btw, v21.03.01 is available.

I just upgraded to 21-24 and it shows v21.11 in my properties cuz im not using the 24 yet. however someone is using v21.011 and i cant upload. any suggestions???
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Old April 29th, 2015, 06:35 AM   #5
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[quote=Ken Roach;639492]Have you ever watched a cat get really, really good and high off catnip ? That's how software product managers get with sub-revision numbers. The only thing worse is sub-sub revision numbers.

Studio 5000 v21.011 = v21.11

The leading zero was added for reasons that are beyond our comprehension, and are frequently omitted for reasons that are mysteries.


I am trying to upload and it will make it half way thru and then give me an error....

"Error: Tag used as a PLC-5 mapping file not found"
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Old April 29th, 2015, 01:02 PM   #6
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Software Version v Firmware Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_tech
Studio 5000 v21.xxx

Cant seem to find much info on Studio 5000 v21.011. What is the difference with v21.11??
Confusing alright...

I think you are a little mixed up in what you are looking at and what numbers are belong to what?

This sheds a bit of light on things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_tech
I just upgraded to 21-24 and it shows v21.11 in my properties cuz im not using the 24 yet. however someone is using v21.011 and i cant upload. any suggestions???
I think from the above you are looking at the properties for a controller in Logix Designer and this is where you are seeing "21.11"? If so, this is the firmware revision for the controller in the open project.

If you download that firmware revision from the Download Center, it is listed as 21.011 and its Release Notes will refer to it as 21.011. When RSLogix 5000 reads the controller firmware revision, it will display it as 21.11, dropping the middle "0". Both numbers refer to the same controller firmware revision. 21 is the Major revision and .11, or .011 is the Minor revision. Incidentally, v21.011 was the only v21 controller firmware revision released for all controllers that support revision 21 firmware.

Version 21 of Studio 5000's Logix Designer is available at three different versions:

21.03.01
21.03.00
21.00.03

For the software, there is a Major, Minor, and Sub-Minor version. Firmware revisions do not tend to have Sub-Minor revisions.

Note the use of "version" when referring to software and the use of "revision" when referring to firmware. This distinction is important when reading webpages, KBase articles and documents referring to these numbers. Although, I do see a lot references mixed up, even on the KBase, where software "revisions" and firmware "versions" are mentioned. But this is down to the author mixing up their terms.

Logix Designer is not available as version 21.11 or 21.011. Again, these numbers refer to the same controller firmware revision, not software version. This is why you will not find any info on Studio 5000 v21.11 or v21.011.

When we "talk", "grumble", "moan" or "complain" about the resiliency "versions" that were introduced at "v20.03" and since "v21.03", we are referring to RSLogix 5000 (v20.03) and Logix Designer (v21.03) software "versions", and not controller firmware "revisions".

Anyway, we don't want to open that can any further, or do we?

If you are looking at the properties for a controller offline in a version 21 project, and seeing 21.11, then this is firmware revision 21.011, as this is the only revision available for a revision 21 compatible controller.

But what is your Logix Designer software version?

In Logix Designer, if you go to "Help/About Logix Designer" you should see your software "Version 21.xx" near the top. This is just displaying the software Major and Minor versions and not the Sub-Minor. So you should see one of the three possible versions for version 21 software?

My bet is it will say "Version 21.00", which is version 21.00.03, if we included the Sub-Minor version.

If so, then back to the can of worms...

If you are getting the message:

Uploading all PLC/SLC Tag Mapping Information...
Error: Tag used as a PLC-5 mapping file not found.
Error: Failed to upload PLC tag Mapping information
.

It is most likely that the last version of Studio 5000/Logix Designer to download to this controller was at v21.03.00 or v21.03.01 and because .03 is a security resiliency software version, your v21.00.03 software cannot successfully upload from it.

The only thing that does not add up is that Logix Designer v21.00 should not be able to open a project that was saved using v21.03? So "if" you are viewing the controller properties, where you see 21.11, then your v21.00 software was able to open "some" project successfully? But is the project you are viewing supposed to be a copy of what is in the controller, or is it some other project you have open while pondering all this?

I can only assume that, because you are attempting to upload from this controller, you do not have a current offline copy to be attempting to open offline. A copy that would have been saved by someone else at v21.03?

Anyway, have a look at that software version number.

Regards,
George
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Last edited by Geospark; April 29th, 2015 at 01:06 PM.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 01:31 PM   #7
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George,

Thank you for the very detailed information.

You've illustrated why the people responsible for version numbering should be beaten with fish.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 01:48 PM   #8
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Yes Ken,

Major headaches, from Minor minds, using Sub-Minor thinking!

They must get a right laugh out of all of this?
I'm just glad we are all here to amuse them.

God bless them.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_tech View Post
Cant seem to find much info on Studio 5000 v21.011. What is the difference with v21.11??
I don't even see that version listed in the release notes database:

2015-04-29 13_47_45-Mozilla Firefox.png
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Old April 29th, 2015, 02:09 PM   #10
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That's where I was wrong and George was right: "20.011" and "20.11" are controller firmware revision numbers, not Studio 5000 release numbers.

I'm upgrading to v24 this week so I get to eat the dogfood too.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 03:22 PM   #11
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I'm on Studio 5000 v24.11

Is anyone else finding that when you try open the properties for a module under the I/O Configuration, it can take a gawd awful long time? Logix Designer also goes to (not responding) for periods but does get there in the end.

I had to turn off the "Major fault on controller if connection fails..." for a number of PowerFlex 525 drives and it was painful. I'm just wondering if it's my computer or are others noticing similar?

One thing to watch for with Studio 5000 is the System Requirements. Dual Core processors and 4GB RAM minimum. I have both, but I bet 8GB RAM would probably improve things?

Keep an eye on the System Requirements as the versions go up, they have increased slightly, even since v21. I'm sure as other features and software products are added to Studio 5000, it will become a right hog on resources.

G.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 04:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
Is anyone else finding that when you try open the properties for a module under the I/O Configuration, it can take a gawd awful long time? Logix Designer also goes to (not responding) for periods but does get there in the end.

I had to turn off the "Major fault on controller if connection fails..." for a number of PowerFlex 525 drives and it was painful. I'm just wondering if it's my computer or are others noticing similar?

One thing to watch for with Studio 5000 is the System Requirements. Dual Core processors and 4GB RAM minimum. I have both, but I bet 8GB RAM would probably improve things?

Keep an eye on the System Requirements as the versions go up, they have increased slightly, even since v21. I'm sure as other features and software products are added to Studio 5000, it will become a right hog on resources.

G.
The delay only happens with drives. More RAM will not fix it. According to tech support (who I talked to in the past about the problem) many people have the problem and it is due to Studio having to launch the drives software in the background.

My development workstation has an overclocked Intel i7 processor and 32GB of RAM due to simulation requirements...it STILL takes 30-120 seconds to launch a drive module properties window in Studio 5000.
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Old May 1st, 2015, 09:17 AM   #13
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Versions 20 and 21 were oddball versions in that the software developers at Rockwell got the concept of major and minor revisions confused.

Basically, if you have 20.01 installed, you cannot go online with a 20.03 program. If you have 21.00 installed, you cannot go online with a 21.03 program. For all other versions, it doesn't matter what minor rev you have. Also, a leading zero is added to the software version but not to the processor firmware version, so 20.01 = 20.11

In short, if you can avoid it, don't mess with 20 and 21. For 1756-L6 and below and 1769-L3xx use version 19. For 1756-L7 and 1769-LxxERx, use version 24 or higher.

It's stupid and ridiculous and inconsistent. Pretty much what you expect from Rockwell.

Last edited by FactoryTalktotheHand; May 1st, 2015 at 09:21 AM.
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Old May 1st, 2015, 09:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by einnh View Post
The delay only happens with drives. More RAM will not fix it. According to tech support (who I talked to in the past about the problem) many people have the problem and it is due to Studio having to launch the drives software in the background.

My development workstation has an overclocked Intel i7 processor and 32GB of RAM due to simulation requirements...it STILL takes 30-120 seconds to launch a drive module properties window in Studio 5000.
Studio 5000 is a bloated albatross. It's the Spruce Goose of the RSLogix family. No meaningful changes to the interface, yet four times the memory required to run it.
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 07:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_tech View Post
I am trying to upload and it will make it half way thru and then give me an error....

"Error: Tag used as a PLC-5 mapping file not found"
As George suggested, this is a minor revision incompatibility issue. I recently tried to upload a PLC program from a PLC I'd uploaded from before many times, and got that error every time (and there was no PLC-5 mapping involved). Sure enough, after a call to that PLC's OEM, I learned they'd been bitten by the minor revision thing and had to upgrade that one to 20.03 to get online with it. Long story short, that factory now has a blanket ban on firmware revisions 20 and 21.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Roach View Post
George,

Thank you for the very detailed information.

You've illustrated why the people responsible for version numbering should be beaten with fish.
Please, please let me in on the fun! (petition to remake this smilie with a fish instead of hammer?)
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