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Old May 29th, 2015, 01:43 AM   #1
solojayda3rd
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Unhappy 1747 UIC to micrologix 1200 issues

Hello all, I have an allen Bradley 1747 UIC serial to USB converter which works perfectly fine on our Micrologix 1000 via a 1761-CBL-PM02 cable. However when I try to connect to the Micrologix 1200 I get nothing on RSwho in Rslinx.

I've tried the recommended settings, 19200 Baud, error checking CRC, parity None, Stop bit 1, Full duplex, Device SLC-Cho/micro/panelview as well as 117-Kf3/1747-KE and all the different station numbers

I know the com port is set right, and I can use the exact same set up and connect to a micrologix 1000 right now. Just not the 1200. I 've tried two different 1200's and I've tried using the dcomm button as well.

I'm experiencing the same problem as this thread
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/printthread.php?t=11698
Except his solution hasn't worked for me either. Any help would be much appreciated.

BTW I'm using a windows 7 professional laptop RS linx rev 3.73

Thanks in advanced
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Old May 29th, 2015, 02:06 AM   #2
Bering C Sparky
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No expert,
But I have several 1200's in use and only need to use the 1747-UIC for the ones that I have on a DH485 network.

For all the ones that are standalone I only use the usb to serial converter and the programing cable to connect through a DF1 driver.

Try this:
Create a NEW DF1 driver in RSLINX and try connecting without the UIC and see what happens.


BCS
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Last edited by Bering C Sparky; May 29th, 2015 at 02:09 AM.
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Old May 29th, 2015, 02:32 AM   #3
solojayda3rd
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hi, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, I can not connect directly to the 1200 because my computer does not have serial port, how are you suggesting to not use the UIC?
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Old May 29th, 2015, 02:37 AM   #4
Bering C Sparky
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Use a USB to Serial Converter and then connect the Micrologix Programing Cable to this converter.
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Old May 29th, 2015, 02:47 AM   #5
Bering C Sparky
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Looks like this
Some work better than others, the Keyspan brand seems to work well.

Not sure if this is your specific problem but give it a try.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg usb-serial-adapter.jpg (47.5 KB, 111 views)
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Old May 29th, 2015, 02:55 AM   #6
solojayda3rd
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Yeah I've been suspecting the UIC myself, it IS a usb to serial converter from what I understand but I've also heard better things about the keyspan.
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Old May 29th, 2015, 03:43 AM   #7
Bering C Sparky
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The way I understand it you DO need the 1747-UIC if you are connecting to a PLC, PV, etc. via DH485.

But if you are connecting via RS232 then just use a common USB to Serial Converter.

Let us know if you get it going or not.

Other USB to Serial Converts may work also but the Keyspan is one of the more favored out there. Some of the really cheap ones don't always work so good but if you have any brand laying around give it a try and see if it works.

Have a good night,

BCS
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Old May 29th, 2015, 03:49 AM   #8
alan_505
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The 1747-UIC is a DH-485 device that can use either the RJ45 plug or the 9 pin plug, they both talk DH-485 the 9 pin uses 232 electrical signals.

Alan

DF1 is pure RS-232.
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Old May 29th, 2015, 07:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_505
...DF1 is pure RS-232.
Alan,

I'm not getting into the whole "Protocol Standards are Protocol Standards and RS Wiring Standards are RS Wiring Standards" topic again, and I understand what you mean by the above with regard to it's general use, but the DF1 Protocol is not RS-232 wiring. They are widely used together within the AB/RA world, but they are not intrinsically linked. We many of us know DF1 Serial. It is a Serial Protocol that can be transmitted on any suitable serial wiring or indeed any suitable wiring full stop.

An obvious, but possibly hugely overlooked fact is that USB stands for "Universal Serial Port". i.e. USB is Serial. RS-232 9-pin ports transmit Serial data one bit at a time, whereas USB ports stream the Serial data.

When we use USB to Serial converters, a couple of functions are performed. We are converting Serial to Serial data while converting the electrical signal from one Serial format to another. So the converter must convert the electrical signal, or wiring, from USB to RS-232 wiring. Next, the streamed USB Serial data needs to be buffered and processed, within the converter, into a bit-wise data format to transmit out the RS-232 side.

For the 1747-UIC, it has the option of converting the electrical signal aspect from USB to either RS-232 or RS-485 wiring, depending on whether you are connecting to an RS-232 or RS-485 port that is configured for the DH-485 Protocol.

On top of those operations, the 1747-UIC also converts Protocols while converting these electrical signals. The 1747-UIC is a Serial DF1 Protocol to DH-485 Protocol converter. So, we are using a USB port as the Serial connection from the computer instead of an RS-232 9-pin port. When the 1747-UIC is used with the RS-232 DF1 Devices Driver, or the DH485 UIC Devices Driver, DF1 is communicating to the UIC via a USB Serial connection and not via an RS-232 connection.

Another example is the lesser, but growing, CIP Serial. Here the DF1 Protocol data is encapsulated within CIP packets and transmitted via Ethernet Standard wiring.

And don't forget that the DF1 Protocol can be transmitted wirelessly using Serial radio modems and the DF1 Radio Modem Protocol.

So you cannot really say that DF1 is pure RS-232. I'm not having a go at you Alan. I'm just making a distinction between Protocols and wiring standards. I see many examples where the two are referred to as if they are one and the same.

To get to work, the DF1 Protocol can walk the RS-232 path, cycle the USB road, cruise the Ethernet highway, or fly the radio modem airways.

Regards,
George
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Old May 29th, 2015, 07:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solojayda3rd
Hello all, I have an allen Bradley 1747 UIC serial to USB converter which works perfectly fine on our Micrologix 1000 via a 1761-CBL-PM02 cable. However when I try to connect to the Micrologix 1200 I get nothing on RSwho in Rslinx.

I've tried the recommended settings, 19200 Baud, error checking CRC, parity None, Stop bit 1, Full duplex, Device SLC-Cho/micro/panelview as well as 117-Kf3/1747-KE and all the different station numbers

I know the com port is set right, and I can use the exact same set up and connect to a micrologix 1000 right now. Just not the 1200. I 've tried two different 1200's and I've tried using the dcomm button as well...
solojayda3rd,

I "think" you may be assuming that all MicroLogix 8-pin mini-Din ports are configured the same and that you only need to have the computer configuration correct to communicate with any, or either of these controllers?

NB: The 1747-UIC will only communicate with ports configured for the DH-485 Protocol.

MicroLogix controller communication ports can be configured to use a select number of Protocols, depending on the model.

For the MicroLogix 1000 Series C or higher, you have either DF1 or DH-485. Depending on the Series, the port has either been manually set for the DH-485 Protocol or has auto sensed a DH-485 device is communicating with it and used Automatic Protocol Switching (Series D or higher) to temporarily switch from the DF1 Protocol to the DH-485 Protocol, to communicate with your 1747-UIC.

The MicroLogix 1200 Channel 0 port may currently be configured for the DF1 Protocol, or other. It does not support Automatic Protocol Switching. So it cannot automatically change the currently configured Protocol to the DH-485 Protocol, and so the 1747-UIC cannot establish a connection.

Using the DCOMM option sets the MicroLogix 1200 Channel 0 port to the default DF1 Protocol. Again, this is of no use as the 1747-UIC is looking for the DH-485 Protocol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solojayda3rd
Yeah I've been suspecting the UIC myself, it IS a usb to serial converter from what I understand but I've also heard better things about the keyspan.
But the UIC is also a Protocol converter, which is not what you appear to need here. You just want to pass DF1, not convert it. You need an adapter that just "adapts" USB Serial to RS-232 Serial, such as the Keyspan you mentioned.

If you need to communicate with a controller that is configured for DF1, and you do not have an RS-232 Serial port on your computer, then you must use a "USB to Serial" converter that just converts USB Serial wiring to RS-232 Serial wiring and streamed Serial data to bit-wise Serial data (they all do), but does not perform any Protocol conversion.

Rockwell Automation sell the "9300-USBS" USB to serial adapter, which is more expensive...

9300-USBS (DF1)
The 9300-USBS adapter is used in place of a built-in serial port. It communicates DF1 protocol to serial devices via DB 9 connector with appropriate cabling (i.e. 1747-CP3, 1761-CBL-PM02, 2711-NC13, etc.).

Other popular third party adapters which have been successfully used are the...

Belkin F5U103
Keyspan USA-19W
Keyspan USA-19QW

I have also successfully used and still own an Aten Technologies UC232A adapter.

The main reason that many of the third party adapters do not work, or will only work intermittently with DF1, is timing. Many adapters do not handle the necessary throughput required for the Protocol timing. Because they need to buffer and process the streaming USB Serial data into the RS-232 bit-wise format, many USB-Serial adapters' chipset are not quite up to the task, with regard to DF1. For other applications, the adapter may work successfully, and so point the blame back at RSLinx and its driver, or the attached cable, or even the controller.

Depending on the adapter used, RSLinx may see a device sometimes or not all, due to timeouts waiting for a response.

Older versions of the 9300-USBS used a Prolific chipset, which worked in most cases it was used in, but it did have some issues along the way. The sometimes troublesome Prolific chipset was eventually replaced by the more stable FTDI chipset used in the last few years for the 9300-USBS.

The FTDI chipset is used in many of the available adapters. So it is not exclusive to RA. If using USB-Serial adapters for DF1 communications, and they are not of the proven ones above, and you have issues, then check into which chipset they use. Just having an FTDI chipset does not necessarily guarantee success with DF1, but it gives them a fighting chance.

Choose well.

Regards,
George
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Old May 29th, 2015, 10:22 PM   #11
solojayda3rd
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Thanks to all

So, using an ordinary USB to serial port adapter worked like you guys all said.

Thanks for all the info Geo, and all the help from the rest of you. My apologies if I word things not quite technically correct, I've been around plc's for about 10 years, taken some classes here or there but am just now getting serious, so I'm learning a lot everyday this year..

That being said, all in all I think I just didn't have a good grasp on the UIC and its function.

Everything is up and connected and I'm downloading programs in this 1200 just fine
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Old May 29th, 2015, 10:33 PM   #12
GaryS
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1747 -UIC dons not play well with windows 7 or later
I ran into that problem a years ago some times it will connect and the disconnect. Other times it will not connect at all.
Tech support is aware of the problem it has to do with windows communications buffering. They have no plans to do anything about it other than discontinuing the product
I switch over to a 1769 NET-ENI works every time for me.
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Old May 29th, 2015, 11:03 PM   #13
Ken Roach
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You're thinking of the 1747-PIC module, GaryS. It has a 25-pin RS-232 connector on a ribbon cable and is the size of a paperback book.

That driver doesn't work with XPSP3 (unless you roll back a certain serial patch to SP2) or with Windows 7 or later. It was discontinued because RS-232 ports and Windows hardware handshaking were simply never coming back.

The 1747-UIC replaces the 1747-PIC (and is the same price) for virtually all applications.
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Old May 30th, 2015, 02:19 AM   #14
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No the PIC cable has been obsolete for about 10 years now. I think they stopped using about the same time XP came out. I still have one. you could only use it on a real com port and the RSLinx driver would only allow you to select com 1 or 2 and it only worked with the SCL line of processors if I remember the processor connection was DH485.

the UIC was use with the SLC and Micro 1000 series processors the processor connection is DH485 as well and RSLinx uses the DF1 drivers even though is says RS232(DH485) it only DH485 protocol.
I have had many conversations with tech support they are aware of the problems it drops the connections and some times it will not connect at all the tell me it has to do with the windows buffers and delay they have on communications.

I started using the NET_ENI a few years ago just setup a static IP address works great
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Old May 30th, 2015, 11:03 AM   #15
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George,
All I can say is WOW!! Your knowledge on AB stuff is incredible.

It is guys like you, Ken and a few other that I am forgetting that really make the forum happen. If I see that one of you guys has answered a question I will look at the post even if it doesn't pertain to anything I am working on just so I can learn something.

All I can say is thanks for all the help you have given me. Most of the time the help isnt even from answering one of my post. It has come from past posts you have done that I found in a search looking for something.
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