electrical schematic special wire numbering

[dogleg43]

RE Chuck's comment of: "Basing a wire number on a page of the wiring diagram would have to assume that the wiring diagram will never change and that the wire is only represented on one page."
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The wire # is based on the page/line# where it originates so the wire can be shown on as many pages as required. Ballons or Hex symbols are used to indicate continuations to another page (or even another line # on the same page).

 

[russrmartin]

RE Chuck's comment of: "Basing a wire number on a page of the wiring diagram would have to assume that the wiring diagram will never change and that the wire is only represented on one page."
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The wire # is based on the page/line# where it originates so the wire can be shown on as many pages as required. Ballons or Hex symbols are used to indicate continuations to another page (or even another line # on the same page).

What if a sheet is inserted somewhere in the middle. Perhaps I am adding a new PLC I/O module, and I want to keep my I/O modules clustered in the prints. I'd have to insert a sheet into the project, and say sheet 10 would have to become sheet 11. It's for this reason 3M prints do not refer to sheet #.

 

[NetMan]

... 400 field devices ... all from one panel? No junction boxes scattered about the machine? I mean if 403 is your +24VDC source, then I would note the various connections in the main panel to the various jcx boxes that it goes to. (Unless you want a total of 400 24VDC supply wires ... each going directly to their respective devices. I mean the schematic may not actually reflect the machine layout or conduit/jcx box wire scheduling.) In each jcx box ... you'd have multiple devices powered from 403. I've done this to enable troubleshooting ... say a short in the 24VDC control power. I can remove one wire at a time from the main panel terminal blocks for 24VDC until the short goes away. This leads me to the jcx box or conduit to that jcx box in the first steps to finding the short.
Just a thought,
- Tony

 

[rsdoran]

I have dealt with FAR TOO MANY drawings that had wire numbers changing at each terminal, sometimes not sequential i.e. 125>233>345 or sequentially 125>225>325 etc. I respectfully request that you do not follow this method.

Personally I have not determined the most efficient method, as ALARIC mention just be consistent.

Page/Line referencing is used because it simplifies the process of locating what page and/or line to look when a problem occurs. Using prior references if you are looking at an issue with something with wire 9xxx or device 9xxx then you can go to page 9 to see the circuit.

Finding the wire is not always the issue, it is determining how the circuitry is connected.

I did have to modify a drawing once adding pages to it, I used A, B etc with the prior page number i.e. a page added between 4 and 5 became page 5A. The only issue I had was determing the best method for line numbering, I decided to continue from the last line number on page 5 but I guess it could have been just as effective if I had used 5A-501 etc but that seemed confusing because there would be duplicate numbers.

Personally I have no idea what is the best method, just be consistent.

 

[AEI Service]

Great topic

I am new here and have learned a lot just by reading many different post. My company works mainly in the printing industery, so I get to service equipment from all over the world. USA, Japan, Germany, Czechoslovakia, England, and others, and everybody does them different.

So I hope you work out a standard and can make it world wide, (than we can work on world peace)

 

[dogleg43]

RE: What if a sheet is inserted somewhere in the middle. Perhaps I am adding a new PLC I/O module, and I want to keep my I/O modules clustered in the prints.

The key is to plan out your system and have leave spare sheets.
I've been exposed to many systems and all of strengths and weaknesses.

If slots in a PLC rack are not used, then skip enough pages to allow for them to be inserted in future. Identify them as "RESERVED FOR PLC RACK XX SLOTS 12 & 13 for example. Also,

Note for below - it is not necessary to print out all of the sheets, just make a good table of contents noting that sheets:
1-99 for network architecture, plan views, etc.
100-199 for 480VAC, drives, transformers, etc.
200-299 for 120VAC & 24VDC hardwired devices & circuits.
300-399 for PLC modules
400-499 Tables for message display contents, drive parameters, or whatever
500-599 for panel drawings, J-box layouts, etc.

Or, on complex systems with more than one PLC or 480 main panel then group your drawings:

Drawing
Group Sheets Purpose
0A 1-999 Network
AA 1-999 480VAC & 24VDC for 1st system
AB 1-999 120AC & 24DC hardwired controls for 1st system
AC 1-999 1st PLC in system
AD 1-999 Tables for message displays
etc.

BA 1-999 480VAC & 24VDC for 2nd system
BB 1-999 120AC & 24DC hardwired controls for 2nd system
BC 1-999 2nd PLC in system

It may not be the best system, but it works for us because it is consistent and it is used throughout the plant.