UL Panel shop info

[Rson]

So after having the X'th panel be UL certified because customers require it, I have finally talked my bosses into allowing me to take a UL508A course and get a copy of the standard so I at least know what I'm supposed to be doing (flying blind right now)

I'm planning to take the UL508A two day workshop and possibly a UL698A workshop.

I notice the cost of the workshop goes toward being certified as a UL panel shop. It is only two of us - I design/program and the other guy builds. Before I call UL all interested and get hounded for weeks with calls - is it generally worth it? What else would be involved in becoming a UL panel shop? Any idea on overall costs?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jraef]

Paperwork mostly. As a UL508A shop, you will be required to keep detailed records of your builds and bills of materials, then periodically submit your "file" for any added UL Recognized (backward UR symbol) components that you have used and how you used them. You will also be subject to routine unannounced inspections throughout the year, for which you will have to pay.


Is it worth it? I found it was when I had it. It became too difficult to find steady customers that were OK with not having a listed assembly.

 

[lesmar96]

For a long time we have basically built panels to UL specs but never went through the paperwork to actually put the label on them and make it official. Most customers were fine with that.

We are also on the verge of pulling the trigger on becoming UL certified because it hits us most in the OEM market. More and more of those customers are requiring it.

 

[kamenges]

Is it worth it today? Hard to say. That question really hinges on your customer base, both who you have now and who you intend to shoot for in the short term.

It really comes down to two popular situations when it comes down to requiring UL. You either have a customer in a jurisdiction that requires UL inspection prior to putting a machine into service. OR you are dealing with a large company, many of whom have the aggravating habit of moving machines around the country on a whim. For them it is just logistics. They don't want to mess with the machine once they have it IF it ends up going to a jurisdiction that requires UL. We have even recently built machines that required UL approval on panels AND were required to meet CE requirements with an absolute minimum of modifications. Just in case they wanted to send the thing to Europe...later. Most other customers will just want you to use UL listed or recognized components so they are confident you aren't using something your cousin built in his garage the night before. So, depending on your customer list, it might make sense for you.

However, the trend is toward more and more jurisdictions requiring UL inspection. For example, I THINK a vast majority of the AHJ's in the sate of Minnesota require UL inspection on machines. If you are looking to the future it might make sense to get started on this. It looks to me like it is coming to an AHJ near you.

I'm not a UL panel shop employee but I did have the manager at a UL panel shop tell me that the "file" jraef referred to below is not necessarily free to maintain if you are dealing with procedure described component classes. Apparently it is actually fairly expensive to add them. I have heard you can get a one-time exemption on a specific component that this rule applies to. However, if you have a customer that insists on using one of these components it can be pricey to set yourself up to use it.

Keith

 

[Rson]

This may be a silly question, but what kind of fees are involved?

I may go freelance (I was going to until Covid) and wondering if it is worth my while to become someone who can inspect/list a UL panel. Could I even do this if I didn't have a shop but only inspected other's work?

 

[mbartoli]

It has been a while since I worked at the integrator that had the certification, so I don't remember what the fees were; I do remember that they were not insignificant.


Is it worth it? As others have indicated, your biggest driver will be your customer base. Ours was the water treatment industry in Florida, and all municipalities and jurisdictions were in lockstep to require UL508A certification. Your customer base (present and/or potential) will make answering that question easier. For us it was a no-brainer; cost of doing business. Just be prepared to answer a lot of questions, keep a lot of records, and know your inspectors.

 

[jraef]

UL-508A certification is for a SHOP and assembly PROCESS, not an individual, and it is not an "inspection / listing" license. A panel shop can bring in a panel built by someone else and "modify" it in their shop to meet UL-508A, then label it under THEIR license, but UL does not allow for that to be done in the field. They reserve that right to themselves (and charge for it). Some shops DO that for other people who build their own panels, but UL would pull their license of they found out so it is seldom worth the risk.
I have no idea what it costs now, the last time I did this was in 2010 and it was just under $10k all told by the end of the process. When I did it another time in the early 90s, it was over $20k, so UL has become a little more reasonable over the years.

 

[lesmar96]

This may be a silly question, but what kind of fees are involved?

I may go freelance (I was going to until Covid) and wondering if it is worth my while to become someone who can inspect/list a UL panel. Could I even do this if I didn't have a shop but only inspected other's work?

UL-508A certification is for a SHOP and assembly PROCESS, not an individual, and it is not an "inspection / listing" license. A panel shop can bring in a panel built by someone else and "modify" it in their shop to meet UL-508A, then label it under THEIR license, but UL does not allow for that to be done in the field. They reserve that right to themselves (and charge for it). Some shops DO that for other people who build their own panels, but UL would pull their license of they found out so it is seldom worth the risk.
I have no idea what it costs now, the last time I did this was in 2010 and it was just under $10k all told by the end of the process. When I did it another time in the early 90s, it was over $20k, so UL has become a little more reasonable over the years.

I have done quite a bit a research on this because we are preparing to become a certified shop. Someone here please correct me if I am wrong.

As stated, a UL inspector will show up once a quarter to inspect your work and your records. It doesn't seem to be a matter of inspecting your own (or others) work.

To have your shop certified, we have been quoted around $5500 to be trained and setup initially. Then $1756 annual fee and $556 per inspection. There will be a minimum of 4 inspections but they can come more often if they decide they need to. UL Labels are bought in addition to this.

This is what we were quoted in the last few months by UL. Hopefully it gives you a little feel on which direction you want to head.