Looking for something like Asdvanced HMI but proprietary

Phrog30, thanks for the clarification

Could someone please explain how the licensing for CIP and/or Ethernet/IP works?

For example, if I have a Python prompt, it is all but trivial to send an minimal "who are you?" E/IP message to my Micro820, and get a reply:



Granted that is a long walk from there to a DLL implementing CIP over E/IP, but those are the guts of what is needed, the rest is bookkeeping. A lot of bookkeeping to be sure, but bookkeeping nonetheless.

And on Github, under https://github.com/EIPStackGroup/OpENer, I see what is perhaps a fully functioning E/IP-CIP interface, with this in the license document:
So it seems like at least R-A thinks that ODVA is the legal gatekeeper for any CIP-E/IP applications anyone, from some garage coder to a pro like this thread's OP, may write and sell.

In the meantime, ODVA.org, is charging multiple k$ per specification document.

Say I write an application that uses a DLL to implement some pieces of CIP-E/IP, which DLL I wrote. Even if it's as simple as "Here is an app that broadcasts a ListIdentity request, and every E/IP-compliant device on your network should respond." what do I have to do, if anything, to keep ODVA lawyers off my doorstep?

Or say I buy e.g. the $200 .NET driver on the AdvancedHMI site and write an app using it. Do I then have to sell a license with every copy of my app that I sell?

AlfredoQuintero said:

There are tools such as the Agilent or Keysight for which the development environment costs about 10 K USD but the runtime components are free of charge. The customer would pay for such a development environment license, so no, it is not a search for an eaten and simultaneously kept cake what I am doing now.

Click to expand...

Gotcha, seemed like they were trying to go cheap. I found this that might help. I have no experience with them though...

https://ingeardrivers.com/net-products/

It's not that hard to just use regular visual studio for developing an HMI. Not as pre-canned as Advanced HMI on the controls template side but definitely doable. You would have the license free runtime you are looking for.

ndzied1 said:

Gotcha, seemed like they were trying to go cheap. I found this that might help. I have no experience with them though...

https://ingeardrivers.com/net-products/

It's not that hard to just use regular visual studio for developing an HMI. Not as pre-canned as Advanced HMI on the controls template side but definitely doable. You would have the license free runtime you are looking for.

Click to expand...

Thanks very much. I did not know this solution. It seems to be very good in the communication functionality for Rockwell PLC, Siemens PLC, GE Fanuc, Omron and Modbus. In my case I am developing a HART IP client and already developed the HART IP client communication libraries. So I am looking for a library that I can do a buyout and use to develop screens for sending commands to HART or WirelessHART devices, log data, plot trends and so on, which would be a lot of work to develop from scratch. Therefore, for me a library that does not support communication, but offers good options for generic control and supervision objects would be perhaps better suited than INGEAR. But thanks very much for the link.

2) [AdvancedHMI] is an open source project and must remain that way, which means if you build an HMI and sell the machine, the customer has the right to ALL of the source code just as much as you did. If you need to distribute under a closed source license, you may contact us about purchasing a license.

Click to expand...

I found this in the file UsageAndLicense.txt in a copy of AdvancedHMI. Note the last sentence.

drbitboy said:

I found this in the file UsageAndLicense.txt in a copy of AdvancedHMI. Note the last sentence.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much. Will contact them this week.

I'm surprised Archie hasn't chimed in on this thread. He's the one that should be explaining his product.

Phrog30 said:

I'm surprised Archie hasn't chimed in on this thread. He's the one that should be explaining his product.

Click to expand...

There is a post over at mrplc or summat that explains his business model and the resulting license.

drbitboy said:

There is a post over at mrplc or summat that explains his business model and the resulting license.

Click to expand...

I just saying I'm surprised he hasn't made a comment on this specific thread.

A very quick clarification on the AdvancedHMI license:

AdvancedHMI Base Package- full package with multiple drivers and multiple controls. Free but open source distribution is the only option

Expansion Packs - Small purchased visual control extensions for the AdvancedHMI base package. Can be distributed with AdvancedHMI solutions, but must also follow the open source license

Stand-Alone ControlLogix Driver - Driver Only (no visual controls). Cost for development license but can be distributed in closed source applications

Archie said:

A very quick clarification on the AdvancedHMI license:

AdvancedHMI Base Package- full package with multiple drivers and multiple controls. Free but open source distribution is the only option

Expansion Packs - Small purchased visual control extensions for the AdvancedHMI base package. Can be distributed with AdvancedHMI solutions, but must also follow the open source license

Stand-Alone ControlLogix Driver - Driver Only (no visual controls). Cost for development license but can be distributed in closed source applications

Click to expand...

Hello Archie: Thanks for your post. Just to double-check: There is no way to purchase a license of AdvancedHMI that would allow the distribution of executable code without sources. Did I understand your explanation correctly? Thanks.

AlfredoQuintero said:

Hello Archie: Thanks for your post. Just to double-check: There is no way to purchase a license of AdvancedHMI that would allow the distribution of executable code without sources. Did I understand your explanation correctly? Thanks.

Click to expand...

You are correct. There are no purchase or closed source options for the AdvancedHMI package.

The license was intentionally done this way to offer solutions similar to PanelView, Red Lion, C-More, etc. where the end user can make their own modifications.

For several customers we have developed custom .NET controls and complete applications in which the customer could modify themselves and distribute as closed source. Since this is a custom application developed for a specific customer, the cost easily gets into thousands of dollars.