VM and Antivirus

Bering C Sparky

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Hello,
Recently purchased a new laptop and looking into virus protection.
I am also setting up several VM's for use with different brands of automation software to keep things isolated from each other.
Trying to figure out if I only need to install virus protection on my main hard drive (which is a MAC running Maverics OSX) or if I have to install virus protection on my main hard drive and in each VM running windows. (I am using VMWare Fusion)

I have called a couple of the antivirus companys customer support #s and asked this question.
I get a long pause and usually put on hold for while and when they return all say I should purchase keys for each VM as well as for the OSX. (I figured they would say that even if its not true $$$$$)
In most cases they say it will be a different product for the OSX and Windoze OS and thats fine I can live with that.

If that is the case would it be feasable to just install virus protection on one VM and then make several copies of that VM before installing the different automation software to each VM? Will the virus protection transfer over and work on each VM when copying them?

This is my first experience with VM so please forgive my NUBNESS my I.T. knowlage is limited at best.
I know most of you are using VM on a regular basis so I figured this would be a good place to get some straight answers.

I realize that most are not using MAC in the automation world but I did see a thread earlier today where someone was.
(Ken please dont rap my knuckles with my MAC) LOL

Thanks in advance for any input.
BCS
 
Have a think of the path where a Virus attacks a computer. If you open an infected email - don't use the VM for emails. If you visit a web page with malicious code - don't use the VM to surf the web. In years gone by if you inserted a floppy disk or now USB stick with a virus on it - don't do that. If you download a cracked version of software - only use legal, paid for software. So if you keep your VM in a safe environment you don't need to worry about a Virus.

Next up is the protection built in to VMs. In all the VM systems I have used you can create a snapshot of the VM, and then if you think you have somehow allowed a Virus access to the VM you can just restore it to the uninfected version.

So I would say that you definitely must have Virus protection on the Host but don't worry about the Guests.
 
Hello BryanG,
Thanks for the reply,
I went to MAC because they are less likly to get a virus (among other reasons) but still want to be as safe as I can with my investment, it was not cheap.
The main reason I started looking at virus protection for the VM's is that on the VMWare Fusion site they state that although it is harder for a VM to get infected it is still possible and recomended that virus protection be installed, although they were not very specific about the matter.

I try to be as carefull as possible to keep things clean but eventually I see myself having to go to WWW while on the VM, either that or have to download firmware updates, etc on the host and transfer it to stick and then put info on the VM from the stick. Possible but at times can be a pain to switch back and forth. These sites are usually safe but these days just getting on the internet can pose a hazard.

I set things up so I do not do any file sharing between the OSX and Windoze VM's. I want to keep the two of them as far apart as possible. In fact tomorrow if I get a chance I want to see if I can store the VM's on a External Drive and get them off the my host SSD.

Thanks again for the input, I appriciate all the help I can get.

BCS
 
I occasionally have to hook up a VM to the Internet to get an update or a download, and so far I've not gotten any sort of malware loaded.

And I agree, that's mostly safe... but my own company's web host got hacked last year and was serving malware to everyone who hit the main page before logging into webmail.

I'd be comfortable with Microsoft Security Essentials and MalwareBytes on a VM. They're both free, stable, and fully featured.

I use ESET on my host OS (Windows 7) because it's exposed to a wide variety of Internet and mail-borne threats.
 
You can move the VM's to an external drive, but performance will suffer.

I am with Ken, Microsoft Security Essentials if you want it on your VM's, but personally I consider VM's "disposable", if something happens to them whatever, I'll just revert back to my 'baseline' VM and life moves on. VM's just allow me to have my software separated to save me from hassles and I only use them when I need to.

My VM's do hit the internet for software updates and referencing websites for product information and manuals, so my risk is pretty low. Plus I don't store anything critical on my VM's, applications I work on get backed up regularly. Again, something happens to the VM I'm really not risking much, especially any personal information.

No need to spend money on VM's if you don't need to. Find a 'free' alternative and invest in protecting your host machine.
 
Thanks everyone for the input,
I think I will just try some free antivirus on the VM's.
Here is the link to PC Mags top pics for 2014 http://www.pcmag.com/image_popup/0,1871,iid=415639,00.asp

How about the cloning/copying of VM's, If I install the virus protection on the first one and then copy it does the virus protection stay active in all?
The OS does so you would think the virus protection would also. Doesnt really mater if using free software but I was just curious in case I want to get something a bit better.

(In Pc Mags artical on the topic they say that the software sent in for testing is not always the same software put out as the free product)(see here)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388652,00.asp

jkerelles I know mac is less likely to get infected but still not impossible, is it really common to not have any protection at all on a MAC?
This is my first time using MAC and I must say from what I have experienced so far, I dont think I will ever go back to a Windoze PC machine again.

Thanks again for the comments,
BCS
 
I have not found any antivirus products that claim to scan a VM from outside of it, so I typically run antivirus both inside and out. I've never run into a case where my antivirus/firewall needed to be disabled to allow me to do what I wanted, but that may be the joy of not having to deal with IT lockdown.

One thing to watch out for with many free antivirus products is that they are often only licensed as free for PERSONAL use, not business use. I think that everyone in this forum would probably qualify as business use, so how legal you want to be is up to you. Personally, I'm a by the book kind of guy.

I use Comodo Internet Security, which is licensed to be free for everyone, including personal use. It includes a standard signature based antivirus, a firewall, and also a whitelist capability, to warn you when new programs are running or doing things that you might not expect. This kind of feature is important in systems like a VM that probably won't get an antivirus update too often.

I can say that it is common to not have any antivirus on a Mac, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Mac OS isn't more fundamentally secure than windows, its just that there are less targets and therefore less hackers bother to try. Mac viruses and malware definitely do exist.

Most of the viruses I see spread are on USB sticks, not even anything network related. I know a lot of people that never take their VM to the internet, but think nothing of mounting a USB drive to it, and it often gets them in trouble. Autorun is the worst windows feature ever.

BryanG does make a good point about using VM features to roll back a virus infested VM to a known good state with Snapshots, or just make a backup copy of the VM. This is a good solution for engineers that use the same version of software for long periods of time. I have to ride the bleeding edge and keep everything up to date, so this doesn't work as well for me.
 
At this point in time I don't know that I mwould make Microsoft Security Essesntials MSE my choice as they have started to stop development and signatures for it and will soon pull the plug in all as it was an AV primarily aimed at Windows XP

With XP support being discontinued MSE has very little time. You can still install and use it but Virus signatures are supposed to be discontinued shortly after XP support ngoes away.

http://www.howtogeek.com/173291/goo...w-recommends-you-use-a-third-party-antivirus/

http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsof...crosoft-security-essentials-windows-xp-233721

http://www.windowsobserver.com/2014...-windows-xp-to-be-discontinued-in-april-2014/

If you like the simplicity of MSE and your company has a Microsoft EA you may want to try Microsoft Endpoint security as I use it and it works great for our neds.

Other lightweight solutions are ESET and Sophos.

On the server end of VMWare we have VShield where all traffic goes through the VShield VM before any other VM's and it does all the AV works so it's only done once in the virtual enviroment but we don't have that in workstation and player yet.
 
One thing to watch out for with many free antivirus products is that they are often only licensed as free for PERSONAL use, not business use. I think that everyone in this forum would probably qualify as business use, so how legal you want to be is up to you. Personally, I'm a by the book kind of guy.

To your point and MSE. MSE is licensed for 10 users only so on 11 computers physical or virtual in your buisness then you need another solution to be legal.

IIRC when MSE first came out it was for home use only and the EULA was later updated to reflect 10 users max home, buisness, vm, whatever.
 
Hello, I don't agree with your statement 'most are not using MAC in the automation world'. For instance, most of my colleagues use it. Speaking about your antivirus request, I also use Mac OS and had some difficulties. I like some which are used only at my College, unfortunately. But you can try this https://bestantiviruspro.org/best-internet-security/ . I've been using it for maybe 4 month. Try to use it to, it's normal, but Mac users know how difficult it can be to find a good stuff.
 

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