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Old October 20th, 2021, 09:43 PM   #16
TWS
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Was the system working properly before the radio upgrade?
On your DF1 data capture, I do not see any reads or writes.
Was the system working with the Prosoft module and the L-81 processor before the radio upgrade?
I am suspicious of the Prosoft module configuration.
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Old October 20th, 2021, 11:06 PM   #17
PreLC
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I wish I knew something about the subject matter of using radio comm, but have you tried using OPC connections?

You can try putting a local LTE based NUC-type device in your control panel, and have kepware running on it.
Then centrally have a Kepware installation on a main server to go online. Also, if you need to troubleshoot PLCs, you can install the software needed on these NUCs and RDP into them to go online?

Not sure if LTE works for your application considering you have rough terrain, but sometimes the sustenance of old tech after the original tech creators at companies like GE have left, it becomes hard to get fully functioning technology.

Found a Kepware page with some actual info too:https://www.kepware.com/en-us/produc...n-bradley-df1/

Also, if LTE is just not an option, maybe something like a WAN connection through tools like Ubiquity's offerings? You can try setting up modern radio tech to get a LAN connection?: https://www.ui.com/products/#default

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Last edited by PreLC; October 20th, 2021 at 11:19 PM.
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Old October 21st, 2021, 03:14 PM   #18
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The other thing worth mentioning is if you haven’t already, make sure that the master radio is connected to a good managed switch. With the limited bandwidth you want to limit the traffic that can get to the master radio. It should only be traffic that is meant for the remote PLCs. This needs to include broadcast packets especially if the network is also used for internet traffic. You might have a scenario where the radios are spending all of their resources dealing with traffic not meant for the remote PLCs leaving little to no resources to deal with the actual data exchange that needs to take place.
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Old October 21st, 2021, 03:54 PM   #19
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Firejo
Yea, that was part of the VLAN design but I am going to shark the port to make sure that's what's really happening

TWS
New radios have had this problem since install. DF1 is "supported" but not like the older SD and iNET with the built in ENI support. This is going to be timing based serial DF1 comms with the 5 conversation handshake.

PreLC
I need to work with the serial DF1. I have Ethernet Radio at each location that works fine but the existing equipment I need to talk to is too old.
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Old October 21st, 2021, 06:27 PM   #20
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PreLC
I need to work with the serial DF1. I have Ethernet Radio at each location that works fine but the existing equipment I need to talk to is too old.
Well, that makes sense, but might be a good solution to get from DF1->OPC-UA->OPC-UA->DF1, and the same for the communication on the other side.

They already have DF1->OPC-UA connectors. Might be a viable backup, considering PCs and accessories are cheaper.
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Last edited by PreLC; October 21st, 2021 at 06:42 PM.
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Old October 21st, 2021, 07:24 PM   #21
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Quote: "I have one location that has both Ethernet and a KE module. If I use the ethernet channel it works 100% of the time"
You could try some of these: https://www.rtautomation.com/product/460ecdfm/.
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Old October 22nd, 2021, 07:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firejo View Post
The other thing worth mentioning is if you havenít already, make sure that the master radio is connected to a good managed switch. With the limited bandwidth you want to limit the traffic that can get to the master radio. It should only be traffic that is meant for the remote PLCs. This needs to include broadcast packets especially if the network is also used for internet traffic. You might have a scenario where the radios are spending all of their resources dealing with traffic not meant for the remote PLCs leaving little to no resources to deal with the actual data exchange that needs to take place.
This is precisely why I always recommend people use Layer 3 routing mode on their radios if they support them rather than layer 2 is easier without planning your network first so a lot of people fall into the trap of using it. Most modern ethernet radios do support L3, so plan out the network (/27 subnet size is plenty for most systems). It makes it a lot easier to manage traffic. On some systems I I've use firewall features to block anything other then the required protocols as well, as a backup.
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 04:34 PM   #23
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I am using L3 routing for the radios and the traffic to the Ethernet remotes work fine. At 200mhz there is not much room for a GUI but SSH works fine as well as the PLC polling.

The radios themselves stay connected, its only when the DF1 Hdx M/S protocol in involved does my day get worse. Those well timed 5 handshakes that this protocol requires combined with the low bandwidth frequency are just not well tolerated. At least that's how it looks.

and yes I could add a variety of gateway devices at each location to move this communication to the ethernet channel but that gets far too expensive for this application.

In my final act at the end of the week I put serial and ethernet protocol analyzers running on the input and output of the Prosoft DF1 interface to the radio's com port and I saw that the Prosoft would not always respond to the ethernet commands.... That's unexpected. Gives me a little hope that maybe the Prosoft module is the real issue or at least contributing. I need to look at this in more detail next week.
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