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Old April 29th, 2021, 09:13 PM   #1
JSch
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Hart 1756-if16ih

Hi,

I do have a job where I have to connect 13 Transmitters to an Allen Bradley 1756-IF16IH, 4-20mA directly as Mass Flow Range. I also need to send back these 4 values as Hart: Mass flow, Temperature, Density and Total Mass flow.

Never used IF16IH before and I am farely new to Hart as well, so please correct me if I am stating/asking something wrong! Also I am more concerned about the Transmitter settings at this time, not the Card settings.

-Each channel supports only 1 HART device, so I suppose each Sensor has to be wired in directly back to the card?
-Do I have to activate Hart at all on the Transmitter, or is it always activated?
-The 4 Values: Mass flow, Temperature, Density and Total Mass flow, I will have to set up as PV, SV, TV and QV so that the Hart Master can read it out?

Thanks for any help.

Regards Julian
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Old April 30th, 2021, 11:20 AM   #2
Nova5
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1. I believe only 1 per channel.
2. Varies, most devices its already on. A very few have it off by default.
3. Hart card will be able to read the digital values of SV, TV, QV. PV will be read by the analog component.
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Old April 30th, 2021, 04:13 PM   #3
widelto
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Julian :
I see no problem. 16IH, I means isolated, you can use Active or pasive flowmeters.
Beware of that not all brands of flowmeters are capable of providing : Mass flow, Temperature, Density and Total Mass flow.
You have to ask your flowmeter provider in order to be sure.
New Hart modules use and AOI easy to implement, do not forget to have a HART communicator at hand , and use special software like Pactware, FieldCare (Endress) or Prolink III (Micromotion).
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Old April 30th, 2021, 10:48 PM   #4
JSch
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Thanks guys,

Very helpful, did get most of the settings programmed into the Flowmeter with the TREX yesterday and have to do the implementation and calibration tomorrow.

@Nova5, I think all the Flowmeters (that have Hart functionality) had it turned on.

@widelto, you are right, not all the Flowmeters had the possibility to send Mass Flow, Density, Temperature and Total Mass. Had the Trex on hand, which is quite simple to use but I could not connect to all the Flowmeters, see how I go with the calibration tomorrow.

The 13 Flowmeters have actually already been installed and the frequency output has been used for years with an old batch controller. Now we connect the 4-20mA to the PLC with HART values superimposed on it parallel to the old controller for testing purposes and later on replacement.
Does anybody know, how accurate the flowmeters are, how big the changes in calibrations are and how this could affect the old batch system?

Thanks
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Old April 30th, 2021, 11:19 PM   #5
jonney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSch View Post
Thanks guys,

Very helpful, did get most of the settings programmed into the Flowmeter with the TREX yesterday and have to do the implementation and calibration tomorrow.

@Nova5, I think all the Flowmeters (that have Hart functionality) had it turned on.

@widelto, you are right, not all the Flowmeters had the possibility to send Mass Flow, Density, Temperature and Total Mass. Had the Trex on hand, which is quite simple to use but I could not connect to all the Flowmeters, see how I go with the calibration tomorrow.

The 13 Flowmeters have actually already been installed and the frequency output has been used for years with an old batch controller. Now we connect the 4-20mA to the PLC with HART values superimposed on it parallel to the old controller for testing purposes and later on replacement.
Does anybody know, how accurate the flowmeters are, how big the changes in calibrations are and how this could affect the old batch system?

Thanks
After you have done all jobs, please post some pictures? I want to see what is "Hart"/"Trex" and what you have done. Thanks.
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Old May 1st, 2021, 08:55 AM   #6
widelto
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@Julian:
Accuracy on flowmeters depends mainly on $$$$ and technology, I have more than 80 flowmeters in my plant. Some of them are 0.1% (custody), others 0.5%, 1% etc .
In your case please go to your brand webpage and download original calibration, there you will find how accurate your instrument is.
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Old May 1st, 2021, 10:32 AM   #7
collinsd70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSch View Post
Hi,

I do have a job where I have to connect 13 Transmitters to an Allen Bradley 1756-IF16IH, 4-20mA directly as Mass Flow Range. I also need to send back these 4 values as Hart: Mass flow, Temperature, Density and Total Mass flow.

Never used IF16IH before and I am farely new to Hart as well, so please correct me if I am stating/asking something wrong! Also I am more concerned about the Transmitter settings at this time, not the Card settings.

-Each channel supports only 1 HART device, so I suppose each Sensor has to be wired in directly back to the card?
-Do I have to activate Hart at all on the Transmitter, or is it always activated?
-The 4 Values: Mass flow, Temperature, Density and Total Mass flow, I will have to set up as PV, SV, TV and QV so that the Hart Master can read it out?

Thanks for any help.

Regards Julian
There are some good PlanPAX AOI's for these cards- saves a lot of the legwork if your starting from scratch.
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Old May 4th, 2021, 06:40 AM   #8
JSch
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Thanks for the help

Thanks for the help, did get everything calibrated that was HART compatible and not broken.

More info on the Trex, if anybody is interested.

https://www.emerson.com/documents/au...-us-171662.pdf
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Old May 4th, 2021, 07:41 AM   #9
cardosocea
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I was reading this and hoping the transmitters aren't F1700... but it seems you're aware of it. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth having a sensor that measures a lot of variables and being limited on the transmitter (the F1700 is HART after all).

The Trex is cool, but at around 7kú in the UK... it's not something a lot of people usually get.
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Old May 4th, 2021, 08:13 AM   #10
JSch
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Hi cardosocea,

The Trex is cool and pricey, think like $15k here in Oz but I just rented and the customer paid for it.

If you talk about an Emerson (Micro Motion) 1700, then yes there was one in there, also 2x 2700, 2x 5700, 3x RTF9739, 1x BNP2 and 4x old ones from the stone age where not even Emerson could supply me manuals.
It is a bit frustrating with the programing, because the Hart values are often tied to the outputs, whereas you think when the output can give some information via 4-20, it would be nice to program the Hart values for all the other information.
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Old May 4th, 2021, 12:09 PM   #11
danw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSch View Post
It is a bit frustrating with the programing, because the Hart values are often tied to the outputs, whereas you think when the output can give some information via 4-20, it would be nice to program the Hart values for all the other information.
How true. I had several decades of HART exposure, primarily for transmitter configuration.

I ran into very few customers who implemented HART through their analog inputs. But for those who did, it became apparent that outside of pressure transmitters (the initial focus of HART as the 'smart' interface in the late 1980's), HART is treated as an add-on; with remarkably little to offer in terms of added value. The key dysfunctionality is the lack more than a primary or a secondary variable in many, many HART instruments and then the lack of ease of assigning internal variables as HART variables.

The marketing prattle about 'advanced diagnostics' is largely just prattle in the absence of an affordable 'asset management' software program with the hooks to fetch the raw diagnostic data out of a transmitter.
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