AB to mitsubishi

I am investigating implementing mitsubishi Plc/Hmi instead of allen bradley. If anyone has any input about my cross reference choice i would be really appreciative. I would like to get an apples to apples comparison. We have a good distributor that supports and has 6 mits engineers on staff. So support i think will be good if i need it.

My projects are relatvely small requiring compactlogix L24ER-QBFC1B and panelview 800 HMIs. I typically use at least 6 out of the 8 available EIP nodes.

I have asked for a quote on GOT2000 - GT2510-VTBD
Gtworks, GXworks, and a Q04UDEHCPU-EIP-K cpu with 8 slot main base.

Im sure the foot print is larger than my compactlogix with 3 expansion I/O cards.
Do they only have rack style I/O?

It seems they are limited on remote EIP capability, am i right?
Their slice IO read profibus and CClink?

Thanks for your valued time.

My advice is to use iQR series of PLC instead of Q series. With iQR you can use RJ71EIP91 for EtherNet/IP.
In fact try iQF PLC that has less programing power than iQR or Q and is more comparable to Compactlogix. In that case you need FX5-ENET/IP card for EtherNet/IP.
You need GxWorks3 for programming PLC but it is not expensive.

Since you are using the PV 800 series have you thought about the Micro850 for the PLC?

I have never used the iQ-R but I have used the Q before and once you are over the hurdle of the software they are very nice, the machine I worked on had 5 GOT's and 6 Q's (Q06HCPU) they were all connected with the CCLink and never had much issues with them, the 06's were very fast.

goghie said:

My advice is to use iQR series of PLC instead of Q series. With iQR you can use RJ71EIP91 for EtherNet/IP.
In fact try iQF PLC that has less programing power than iQR or Q and is more comparable to Compactlogix. In that case you need FX5-ENET/IP card for EtherNet/IP.
You need GxWorks3 for programming PLC but it is not expensive.

Click to expand...

I will take a look at the iQ series. I have not got a quote back yet so i will see how they xompare

You could also look at the FX5 series if you are looking for something that isn't rack based.

geniusintraining said:

Since you are using the PV 800 series have you thought about the Micro850 for the PLC?

I have never used the iQ-R but I have used the Q before and once you are over the hurdle of the software they are very nice, the machine I worked on had 5 GOT's and 6 Q's (Q06HCPU) they were all connected with the CCLink and never had much issues with them, the 06's were very fast.

Click to expand...

I have used the micro 820s for smaller projects. But in this case i am not looking for a cheaper option to the plc i am looking to not have deal with rockwells software bugging out FTview mostly and me always having to spend time figuring out versions and doing updates.

I would like a software that is across the board. Mits seems to be close to this and i also am familier with japanease style software since i use fanuc software daily and have never once had to deal with version ssues or paid support.
I recently called about updating my software and a tech contract mainly because i am afraid to do a large project coming up without it because i fear the software wont open one day in the middle of it.

If i feel like that i need to look knto other options.

I agree with the Mitsi option, talk to your local rep, you might find you get some freebies. The older PLC's do not need flashing, often the new versions of IDE's cater for almost all the older models, for example GXWorks 3 will program all but the very old FX range (the FX Range was dropped some time ago).

So i have done some more thorough digging.
It seems like the iQ-FX5U should be able to handle my mid sized projects. The only thing that scares me is the Ethernet IP module only supports 32 connections? Can anyone elaborate on that. Is it 32 nodes or 32 actual connections?

I have looked at the iQ-R and Q.
The iQ-R seems overkill for what im doing.
The Q they say is still being sold but an older model? The ethernet card of the Q is expensive.

I love the software prices so far.

goghie said:

My advice is to use iQR series of PLC instead of Q series. With iQR you can use RJ71EIP91 for EtherNet/IP.
In fact try iQF PLC that has less programing power than iQR or Q and is more comparable to Compactlogix. In that case you need FX5-ENET/IP card for EtherNet/IP.
You need GxWorks3 for programming PLC but it is not expensive.

Click to expand...

Yes this is exactly what i looked at.
See my last post.
Thanks for the information.
So you think the iQF would be closest to compactlogix?

the big question is "What is in your plant now"?
if everything is ab, i'd stick with ab, even though it's expensive.
Maintenance won't have to learn new software, have a learning curve, or resist learning a new software package. it there are multiple brands, then ok, but there is a learning curve. Also, what is the corporate standard? get with engineering and maintenance first. I know of 2 engineers that went against corporate and bought ab instead of ge. they were almost fired and were told that the next ab plc that was installed, that would be their last day at the plant.
james

Even the older FX3 could do most functions you could possibly want, the FX5 for the smaller platforms I think is ideal, here are my reasons for switching from AB to Mitsubishi:
In 2003 we purchased over 50k of software (RS32Works plus clients etc.) this was to replace an existing RSV32 where the supplier went bust but had locked it up & incorporated some of their own proprietary software, the local AB Rep was great, but I found the support was to say the least terrible, they had just started to introduce the tech connect system & even though we had spent a lot of money, they would not help us out (well not quite true but it was slow another story), As far as I was concerned their reduction of supplier base, tech connect, escalating costs & their profusion of version numbers really got to me, my boss was trying to put the blame on me, the original AB rep had been hassled by a number of his customers over the above & left AB for other ventures. At that point I decided that enough was enough, and with the companies agreement we changed our specs, all upgrades & new plant was diverted to Mitsubishi.
Over the years I developed a really good relationship with them, they were helpful, costs for software & hardware was a lot lower, indeed it was surprising that as their versions & new platforms came online the software supported the older platforms so no need to update the older hardware, the only thing I did find was the later versions of GX stopped supporting the very old FX range that had been dropped many years before.
The only downside is that so their is compatibility with the older systems in reality, the use of tag based variables is not so clear cut, they still use actual addresses for both global & local ones, this is not a problem just needs a little time to understand how it all works, the manuals although a lot better than some years ago, are what we call chinenglish so the translation makes it a little difficult to get your head round.
I have a personal hate of how Rockwell treated me and their strong arm tactics so don't let the above put you off, USA is different to UK so I do not know what support is like over there.

bill4807 said:

Yes this is exactly what i looked at.
See my last post.
Thanks for the information.
So you think the iQF would be closest to compactlogix?

Click to expand...

iQF is very powerful and reliable. In fact it has 90% of iQR
advanced possibilities. I've done few jobs with Compactlogix and don't have to big experience with it, but for me iQF seems much stronger, especially with motion control and data acquisition. Both iQR and iQF are my preferred choice in last 4 years.

bill4807 said:

So i have done some more thorough digging.
It seems like the iQ-FX5U should be able to handle my mid sized projects. The only thing that scares me is the Ethernet IP module only supports 32 connections? Can anyone elaborate on that. Is it 32 nodes or 32 actual connections?

I have looked at the iQ-R and Q.
The iQ-R seems overkill for what im doing.
The Q they say is still being sold but an older model? The ethernet card of the Q is expensive.

I love the software prices so far.

Click to expand...

Is there any reason why you need to use EtherNet/IP with Mitsubishi? They have better support for CC-Link/IE Field or CC-Link/IF Basic IO. I will check the manual later and confirm the number of EtherNet/IP adapters that you can control with Mitsubishi

One of the biggest issues with Mitsubishi is there lack of coverage on online forums like this. With Rockwell you can search for an issue on here and have an answer immediately - with Mitsubishi it’s a bit harder - but then their technical help from the suppliers is great, so you just have to use that route.

I would go with IQR PLCs as they are much more future proof than Q series, and have Ethernet IP cards if required to interface with Rockwell gear.

The CC Link IE comms system is very good and simple to configure.

I think that as this site is predominantly US is the reason, Mrplc does have a lot more but it's always having problems. The other possibility is that AB seems to have more issues than other Mfrs.
Sorry my rant for the day lol