need help with restoring program to Siemens Simatic TI335-37

Hi all,

Got a call from a client that has several small water systems, asked me to take a look at one I've never programmed, just troubleshot a previous sensor issue. The CPU is a Siemens Simatric TI335-37, with a TI305 programmer connected to the CPU. This is a Roberts water filtration system (two filters, just FYI) and looks like it was installed in about 1994.

They experienced a power outage for about an hour, and when power restored the plant did not resume filtering water.

I've never programmed or troubleshot Siemens processors of any kind, let alone this old so I'm totally in the dark here.

When I arrived I cracked open the cabinet and found that the PWR light was green, but RUN was not illuminated, nor was BATT or CPU. RX and TX also nothing, but there is no comms in this system so I'm not concerned with that. The TI305 programmer is set to RUN, but they don't know where the key is and we couldn't find it after searching high and low.

Luckily they did have the TISOFT2 software on 3.5" diskette, and after a lot of troubleshooting I was able to get it to install on a WinXP VM. We were also able to find another 3.5 diskette with the program on it, but it was dated 1994 so who knows if the program has ever been changed since original installation.

I do have the TISOFT2 manual but my goodness is it ancient. Was wondering if you guys could help with the following questions:

1. I see the the TI315 programmer is removable, and from doing some reading it sounds like the TI315 is more for small projects/troubleshooting rather than larger complex projects. So that makes me think I can interface with the CPU with its RS232 jack directly, is this right?

2. Is there a way to check what, if any, code is currently stored on the CPU?

3. I've read that Automation Direct took over the line and DirectSOFT6 can be used to interface; tried doing this but for some reason it's ignoring my license key and it says failed to import project. This is a long shot, but has anyone else had this issue? I'll try AD tech support too.

I think I've figured out how to move forward, but any insight is sure appreciated. Thanks gents!

edit: I forgot to mention that while the RUN light isn't illuminated on the CPU, the I/O cards do show that when discrete values change (i.e. HOA switches) they DO show change, so the I/O is at least responsive.

The GE Series One made by Koyo was one of the PLC lines I first learned. It was later sold as TI 305, then Siemens 305, then Automation Direct 305. I can't tell you much about PC interfacing. I did all programming through the programmer, but did back up some larger projects to cassette.

For your #2 question, if there's a program present, you should be able to see it one instruction at a time with the PRV and NXT buttons. You can scroll through the program in run or program mode.

I just fired up one that ran my washing machine a few years to see it for this post. Here's a picture of the key that might help you find one or make a suitable substitute.

For a serial connection between the PLC and the PC running TISoft you will need a serial communications module that attaches to the PLC where the programmer is now. They are available from Automation Direct if the customer doesn't already have one.

You can get a copy of the GE Series One manual at MRPLC.com

https://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?/files/file/443-ge-fanuc-series-one-plus-manual/

The Series One is the same beast as the Siemens/TI version. The manual will show you the keystrokes to step through the program (if any) in the PLC's memory

TiSoft is all about function keys, hitting the space bar changes the menu.
I never tried running it on XP or VM, but some laptop serial ports were a challenge. I ran it on WinNT desktops with out issue in a CMD prompt. What version of TiSoft 4, 5, 6, 7? Most likely 4 or 5. If you go on line and the program is lost, in the 500 series, it would be full of ladder rungs with NOP as the out put.

I ran TiSoft on a Win7 laptop using Dosbox. Easy enough to get working.

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. I ordered the serial cable from AD and it should be here tomorrow. When I get to the plant, I'll start out by using the TI305 to see if there is any code on the CPU (thanks 5618 for that suggestion, as well as a photo of the key; I can't imagine doing a 144 rung program with just that!).

Ken Moore, the TISOFT version I found was version 2; it came with two 3.5" diskettes and two 5 1/4" discs, take your pick (WOW).

Dravik, I was able to get TISOFT running on an Oracle VM, but I bet DOSBox would be a lot simpler, I'll take a look at that as well.

Will update tomorrow what I find, thanks again.

In addition to the serial cable you need a D3-232-DCU communications module.

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...l_modular_plc)/communications_-a-_networking#

That's what I was referring to in my post yesterday. If the customer already has one, be aware that the module was available as either RS232 or RS422. The communications module requires 24 VDC which is available from the PLC's power supply.

Steve Bailey said:

In addition to the serial cable you need a D3-232-DCU communications module.

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...l_modular_plc)/communications_-a-_networking#

That's what I was referring to in my post yesterday. If the customer already has one, be aware that the module was available as either RS232 or RS422. The communications module requires 24 VDC which is available from the PLC's power supply.

Click to expand...

Hi Steve, I was under the impression that the DCU was not necessary since the CPU has an RS232C port already on it (RJ-11), and thus the only thing needed was the proper cable to interface with it (D3-DSCBL-1) as per another thread on PLCTalk that is linked here.

Also, the cut sheet for the DCU mentions that the D3-340 CPU (which apparently is the AD name for the Simatics TI335-37) has a comms port so the DCU isn't needed. But again, I'm brand new to this line so any help is greatly appreciated.

OK, sounds like you're good to go. I didn't realize the CPU with a serial port came out during the TI/Siemens era. I know the RS-232 version of the DCU was introduced when TI branded the product. Prior to that you needed a RS-232/RS422 converter in addition to the DCU.

BTW, it is possible to turn the keyswitch on the programmer with a screwdriver when you can't find a key. Use one with a narrow enough blade so it doesn't engage the outer ring.

Steve Bailey said:

OK, sounds like you're good to go. I didn't realize the CPU with a serial port came out during the TI/Siemens era. I know the RS-232 version of the DCU was introduced when TI branded the product. Prior to that you needed a RS-232/RS422 converter in addition to the DCU.

Click to expand...

Yeah I tried my best to do my homework, but I really appreciate your help regardless!

BTW, it is possible to turn the keyswitch on the programmer with a screwdriver when you can't find a key. Use one with a narrow enough blade so it doesn't engage the outer ring.

Click to expand...

I'll give that a try!

following with interest as i love all this early gear when it pops. you guys on here are amazing.


what era are we talking with this stuff ? i would guess it's from early 1980's.

This is a GE branded CPU with 1K of memory. The battery dated 87-06 is almost certainly original from 1987. I'll guess it was around 1995 when I pulled this from a decommissioned machine.

I ran a washing machine with it for a couple years after the cam switch failed. That was during Y2K and this made it through without implosion, yay! Then it sat until yesterday when I powered up and saw the washing machine program is still there and the battery doesn't light up a warning yet. Maybe it's been powered on once or twice in the last 20 years.

If the program is present, a safe way for an initial backup would be a video scrolling through with the NXT button. Stay in run mode so nothing should be able to get accidentally changed.

In the days of yore back when I worked with these Series One, before a camera in the pocket existed, I once scrolled through a very large 5TI program and read every instruction to a tape recorder as the initial step for a machine without program documentation.

I took a closer look at the key switch. On this one, there's a single tumbler lower in the hole that gives the keyswitch a bit of tamper resistance. If you use a screwdriver, you will probably need one that will reach the tumbler. Here's a closer look at the key if you want to make one.
.195" is clearance for the retainer.
.260" keeps the key from pulling out.
.157" is where the tumbler is. This is the important dimension, and I expect there's generous tolerance there.
The graph paper is 1/4" squares.
For a flat key without the original rib, this one looks like about .050" would be maximum thickness. I have some .025" shim stock I would use if I made one.