Panelview Plus 1000: I just need to Add ONE User ... Please, Rockwell ...

Colt Hero

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As the Title says ... I'm just trying to add ONE new User to this Panelview Plus 1000. I went directly to the Panel itself ... but no way to do it that way. So ... found the correct software and opened it in Factory Talk View Studio - Machine Edition ... clicked on the "System" Tree node in the left-side pane, then added a new Factory Talk User (just like the others). Added this User to the appropriate (existing) Group ... then generated a new .MER file (with a new name ... "rv10" on the end ... the previous was "rv9") and downloaded it using the Transfer Utility. When I got to the Panel it was rebooting ... (which was expected) ... I saw the new file name appear on the Screen (which was great "this is gonna be easy", I thought) ... but ... so far ... the new User cannot Login!! Tried manually loading the application at the Panel (which I'm thinking shouldn't be necessary) ... rebooting the Panel ... etc. Nothing worked! So then I realized I hadn't saved Version 9 as Version 10 (I had only created a new ver10 .MER file out of Version 9). So ... I tried creating a new Version 9 .MER file and loading THAT ... still didn't work!

Question #1: when I reloaded Version 9 .MER, why didn't the Panel SHOW Version 9?? It's STILL showing 10 (even though I set that Checkbox in the Transfer Utility to load it as Version 9)!!! It's like it's STUCK on Version 10 (now).

Question #2: Is the download Filename hurting me?? Is there another name in the Panel, and it's just not "seeing" this new name (and ignoring it)?

Question #3: Do I need to DELETE the program in there first??? I'm afraid to do that for fear of having to pay Rockwell a ransom to then fix it !!

Also ... every time I went into the Panel's listing of Programs I could (selectively) Load ... all it ever shows is Version 10!! It's like the download isn't happening ... even though it "happened" the very first time! I also tried a COMPARE in the Transfer Tool and it said "NO DIFFERENCES" (between what's on the Panel and the .MER file I loaded ... but there weren't ANY Graphics changes made ... and maybe it doesn't actually COMPARE User Lists???).

So ... why the heck isn't this new User in there??? My God ... something so simple turns into a big headache for me .... BTW ... this is Version 8 of ME. Also tried changing the Password (thinking maybe I F'd it up TWICE ... unlikely ... and when I re-enter the Password I KNOW I previously entered, it says that Password is already in use! So ... the Password is what I'm using when I attempt to Log this new User in)
 
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Sounds like user error, to be honest.

To help yourself troubleshoot, make an identifying change to one of your screens. Then you'll know for sure that you've downloaded the correct application and selected it to run on the PV. At that point if the new user doesn't work, you can begin troubleshooting that without guessing whether you're even on the right app.
 
@robertmee : Yeah, I'm sure you're correct! Put someone on something they've never used before, and they'll find (and expose) every little "gotcha" the software has to "offer". I've seen that movie before (laughing at the person being "victimized")!

As far as "being on the right app" ... the .MER file I loaded had the exact timestamp I expected (yesterday's date when I created it). It was also Version 10 (which is what I had named it). I'm sure I loaded the correct file.

And I *did* consider doing what you suggest (make a change to a screen) ... but I'm gonna wait on it because ... if I can't even update the User List, the next thing will be ... "Uh-Oh! Now the Panel is inoperable!"

And I don't want THAT to happen ...
 
How about this question: Do I have to make a Graphics change just to make the User changes loadable? There was no familiar “Disk” button on the ribbon (to save changes), and I never saw the SAVE option available under the Menu.

But when I exited and came back in … the new User was there … so … it *did* SAVE.

I guess I’ll just have to “monkey around with it” to find my “mistake” … at the risk of making the Panel inoperable … (which, I’m sure, will eventually happen)
 
When I add users to our FT SE programs I have to add the new user, then go up to the run time security and add them into that and set permissions. Is it possible something was missed there?
 
@mburtis : Yeah ... I *did* look at that, but all that's in there are the "Groups" ... not any of the Users. So ... all it shows are "DEFAULT" and the the two Groups we have defined (AUTOMATION and MFG_SUPPORT). Also tried a DBL-CLK on these lines to see if they expanded to show Users inside, but no! That probably wouldn't make much sense anyway since the User would have already been added to the Group elsewhere (and you wouldn't want the same information in two places).

So ... while I was in there, I checked the current application ... and the New User is in there! I went up to the FILE Menu ... and ... NO "Save" option (it's greyed out). So I DELETED the New User ... went back to the FILE Menu ... and ... STILL NO "Save" option!! So I exited, came back in ... and ... the New User is GONE!

So ... this wonderful application is SAVING changes to the User List without any explicit SAVE!! Crazy! (Maybe there's some "Auto-Save" feature turned ON?)

Another Question: What is the .apa file? Is that a Backup File ... and does that need to be converted back to something that can be opened by FactoryTalk View Studio? Wait!! I just Googled it ... I guess it IS ... and this file is directly openable by FactoryTalk View Studio, I guess (even though it's some kind of compressed/achive file)...
 
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Another Question: What is the .apa file? Is that a Backup File ... and does that need to be converted back to something that can be opened by FactoryTalk View Studio? Wait!! I just Googled it ... I guess it IS ... and this file is directly openable by FactoryTalk View Studio, I guess (even though it's some kind of compressed/achive file)...
.apa is in some ways a relic from the early days when .mer could not be converted back into a project you could work on. Back then if you needed to move between computers you had to backup the application to .apa and then restore it on the other computer. Starting around v6 you can just take the .mer (unless it's been protected) and restore that instead so .apa is now largely redundant.

And yes, how saving works is very non-intuitive. 'Save' applies to individual displays, messages, macros, etc not the application as a whole, and lots of things are pretty much saved as soon as you hit 'ok' to close the dialogue box.

Will respond more directly to your original questions in a bit.
 
LOL! So ... I just found out what happened. You guys ready for this?

Got a call from one of the Process Bays ... Panel inoperative (so my hunch that something would stop working was correct). I go down there ... and this (totally unrelated) Panel is saying "ERROR: Cannot open project due to version incompatibility".

So I go to the "Load Application" Startup option ... and lo and behold ... there are the two downloads I did on Friday ... sent to the wrong Panel!

So I just re-selected the correct application for that Panel and loaded it ... and it came up and ran fine ... but this begs a NEW Question now:

How do I DELETE these two bad Downloads (so that they don't get mistakenly re-loaded, and we end up with an inoperable Panel again)? There was NO OPTION to do it *right there* ... where you'd expect it to be! Is this another "Rockwell Treasure Hunt" (some magical key sequence, or something)??

And apparently ... I THOUGHT I was sending the .MER to the correct Panel ... I mean ... I'm pretty sure I had the correct name of the Device ... but maybe what I THOUGHT I had selected wasn't what was ACTUALLY selected?? Geez ... what a headache!

====
@plvlce : Thanks for that information. OK ... I don't know what I'm doing (with this Rockwell stuff) ... but when I see software that acts like this Rockwell software is acting, I start wondering about the Company writing it ... because ... SAVING Software is such a basic function of a program ... and it really needs to be done in a Standard way ... by explicitly clicking the SAVE button! OR - if AUTOSAVE is an Option, the software should make this VERY EXPLICIT that it's active ... because ... I'm guessing ... in probably 90% cases ... the User is NOT going to want that feature active (but he should at least clearly KNOW its active). To me, this is one of many signs of what I call "Cobbled-together Software" ... which is old software, strung together from version to version, that's in desperate need of a major re-write to streamline it, standardize it, and ... most importantly - provide some real Automation for the DEVELOPER! My God! PlantPax can't even instance replicate-able Logic! What has Rockwell been doing with their software the last decade?!?!?!!
 
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Don't feel bad, I been complaining about Panelview Plus ever since it was introduced in late 90s to replace the old PV line. In the early days, if you lose the application file on your PC then you are screwed. Now at least you can upload the MER file from the unit.

I just showed a new technician how to work one last week and I don't expect he will retain enough to work one anytime soon.

You will need to go to File Management section of the terminal. I don't have a PV+ in front of me but I think you need to exit the ME environment first.
 
@harryting : Thanks! No sure I saw that Option when I was in there. You'd THINK it'd be right there on the same screen that came up with LOAD APPLICATION (where you're selecting one of maybe several Apps from a List to Load) ... but NOOOooooo! When the Operators are done unloading their Batch I'll have to go back and try again ...

Rockwell needs to re-think their software. I think they've been sitting on it for a LONG time ... just collecting the money ...
 
@harryting : Thanks! No sure I saw that Option when I was in there. You'd THINK it'd be right there on the same screen that came up with LOAD APPLICATION (where you're selecting one of maybe several Apps from a List to Load) ... but NOOOooooo! When the Operators are done unloading their Batch I'll have to go back and try again ...

Rockwell needs to re-think their software. I think they've been sitting on it for a LONG time ... just collecting the money ...

Thats pretty much standard with the big market share leaders. Rockwell, Siemens, Schneider, Wonderware, iFix....all their software is running derivative legacy code that's been lipsticked, but the core functionality remains the same for the past 20 years. Market share kills inovation. That's why of late, I'm really enjoying developing in Ignition.
 
I just showed a new technician how to work one last week and I don't expect he will retain enough to work one anytime soon.

You will need to go to File Management section of the terminal. I don't have a PV+ in front of me but I think you need to exit the ME environment first.
I recall writing up instructions to teach techs how to replace a failed PV+600. It was two pages and about 14 steps. With the Red Lion it was two steps. "Move the memory card from the old unit to the new one and power it up." But the Red Lions never failed.
 
@robertmee : So ... you were correct ... it was "Operator Error" ... which I expected ... but Rockwell definitely HELPS YOU fail with their software! We had someone leave here for another opportunity (startup, I think) ... and that place is using Ignition. I'd never heard of it, but it LOOKS pretty interesting on their website. We're looking at replacing a LARGE proprietary DCS here ... and they're leaning towards Rockwell ... but I think that would be a mistake. Ignition would replace Rockwell (??) ... or is that just a front-end and MES (and you'd STILL need to rely on Rockwell PLCs ... or Emerson ... or Siemens)?

@harryting : Yeah ... doesn't surprise me that Red Lion beats Rockwell! To me, Rockwell is just organized chaos to keep the money rolling in. I really cannot stand them! Our proprietary DCS is better than their offerings in a lot of ways ... and it's 30 years old!

=====
Hey ... here's something else that just occurred to me .... when I downloaded to the (allegedly) wrong Panel ... I DID see the CORRECT Panel re-loading each time!!! But finding the Panel app now on the wrong Panel (totally unrelated function, different area, etc.) ... makes me wonder ... could ONE Download have gone to TWO different, unrelated Panels??? 99% Sure they SHOULD have different IP Addresses!!!
 
@robertmee : So ... you were correct ... it was "Operator Error" ... which I expected ... but Rockwell definitely HELPS YOU fail with their software! We had someone leave here for another opportunity (startup, I think) ... and that place is using Ignition. I'd never heard of it, but it LOOKS pretty interesting on their website. We're looking at replacing a LARGE proprietary DCS here ... and they're leaning towards Rockwell ... but I think that would be a mistake. Ignition would replace Rockwell (??) ... or is that just a front-end and MES (and you'd STILL need to rely on Rockwell PLCs ... or Emerson ... or Siemens)?

@harryting : Yeah ... doesn't surprise me that Red Lion beats Rockwell! To me, Rockwell is just organized chaos to keep the money rolling in. I really cannot stand them! Our proprietary DCS is better than their offerings in a lot of ways ... and it's 30 years old!

=====
Hey ... here's something else that just occurred to me .... when I downloaded to the (allegedly) wrong Panel ... I DID see the CORRECT Panel re-loading each time!!! But finding the Panel app now on the wrong Panel (totally unrelated function, different area, etc.) ... makes me wonder ... could ONE Download have gone to TWO different, unrelated Panels??? 99% Sure they SHOULD have different IP Addresses!!!
Ignition is Scada only, but communicates to a wide variety of controllers.

I dont think a download would have been successful with duplicate IPs, but I've never tried.
 
@robertmee : Yeah, I thought so ... (Ignition only front-end)

So ... the SAGA Continues ...

@harryting : You were correct ... I went into File Management (F16, F4 "Terminal Settings", Arrow Down to "File Management", then "Delete Files" ... deleted the two bad downloads ...leaving only the original/correct App to load) ... but now the CORRECT app doesn't run!!!
 
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