Logix/Studio 5000 - disable force feature

the_msp · Jul 22, 2016

Had a quick search on here but haven't (yet) found my answer...

Is there a way in L5k/S5k to disable a user from forcing outputs...completely?

Reason: I have a machine that if two outputs are forced on simultaneously, then two pneumatic cylinders are going to crash into each other and bend stuff... not a danger to the operator as it's inside a chamber with safety guarding...

but if I had bubba willy nilly forcing stuff to try and solve a problem it might not end well..

In the logic I have interlocks (software) to prevent this from happening in auto mode, and I will be providing in the HMI a maintenance screen where they can toggle each cylinder (with logic that only one can be done at a time)

I can't do it via relay interlocks, because the signal is sent over E/IP to the pneumatic manifold header.

TIA.

jaden · Jul 22, 2016

How about using relays to interlock the outputs to the valve?

the_msp · Jul 22, 2016

jaden said:
How about using relays to interlock the outputs to the valve?

...

I can't do it via relay interlocks, because the signal is sent over E/IP to the pneumatic manifold header.

nhatsen · Jul 22, 2016

I'm not sure if it's possible to do that using FTV Asset Centre. If you have RsLogix 5000 Service Edition, there's a technote explaining how to disable upload/download and forcing:

TN 29757 (Access Level TechConnect) RSLogix 5000 Service Edition Disabling Functionality

https://rockwellautomation.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/29757

the_msp · Jul 23, 2016

Thanks, I don't currently have TC access..

can I ask does this apply to the software or the processor?

CRMCC · Jul 23, 2016

What about fitting some pneumatic "NOT" valves to the cylinder pneumatic lines? This would work but obviously requires modifications to the machine.

the_msp · Jul 23, 2016

I had thought briefly about doing that. I would prefer it done in software (processor lock) for the following reasons; there are 5x 5/2 valves in each machine that would need the pneumatic logic applied. There are 15 machines that run 24/7:365. I don't want unnecessary hard to debug (no feedback) stoppages caused by the NOT valves potentially failing.

RET · Jul 23, 2016

Just put the processor in run mode and take the key.

nhatsen · Jul 23, 2016

the_msp said:
Thanks, I don't currently have TC access..

can I ask does this apply to the software or the processor?

That's a software hack (modifying some Windows Registry entries) just for RsLogix Service Edition.

RET said:
Just put the processor in run mode and take the key.

If you do that, you can't do online editions.

RET · Jul 23, 2016

nhatsen said:
If you do that, you can't do online editions.

Exactly...bubba shouldn't be doing edits.

Operaghost · Jul 23, 2016

RET said:
Just put the processor in run mode and take the key.

Of course, you are referring to preventing bubba from editing the logic, not preventing forcing.

OG

Saffa · Jul 24, 2016

I'm not sure if AB have a feature like this, but in Schneider Unity processors there is a function block for forcing and unforcing an I/O on or off through logic. I normally use it only for simulation of code. But If an AB equivalent exists you could just "un-force" the particular point each scan. Will confuse and infuriate bubba, but at least there won't be mangled metal.

the_msp · Jul 24, 2016

I can't apply a software change to the tech's laptop's as I'm a contractor so that's outside of my remit.

I can't remove the key in run mode as maybe I want to go online with the controller from home (1.5 hours drive from site).

If it turns out this is not possible, is there a GSV instruction that tracks force activity? At least that way I could provide an audit log in the SCADA.

Thanks

Phil Buchanan · Jul 24, 2016

You can do it with FT security. It's already built in and nothing to buy.

Operaghost · Jul 24, 2016

Yes, you can use a GSV to detect forces as installed and or enabled. Use the GSV with the Module Object. Skip the instance as it doesn't apply and you can select ForceStatus.

OG

Logix/Studio 5000 - disable force feature

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