ControlLogix problems

I've got to know, is anyone else having as many hardware problems as me or am I cursed. I would estimate that in the past year, 30% have failed in the field. Whenever I have to do a firmware update, which is often to fix bugs in old firmware, half the time, something undocumented is different and the code doesn't work the same. This last week, I lost five processors alone due to trying to upgrade the flash to the latest version 13.40. (Thank God for spares.) The upgrade failed each time in spite of trying it various ways at the direction of AB tech support.

Is it real or voodoo? Please don't start an AB rant here, I really need to know!

Thanks,
Da Cleaner

I have a line working for more than a year. No failure or any problem with logix, however I learned my lesson not to upgrade the software.
About six months ago I upgraded RS View and modified a PVplus application, firmware uncompatibility caused the display to blank out.
When called AB, they suggested firmware upgrade through a local distributor.
Well I had to get the equipment running, thus unistalled the upgrade and went back to the old version.

I lost five processors alone due to trying to upgrade the flash to the latest

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That makes me start to think about the very real possibility that you are cursed. Did you build the factory over a native graveyard or something ?

In the past five years I have probably upgraded 80 or so Logix controllers and have never damaged any of them.

I have some customers whose policy is to go quickly to the "it must be firmware" assumption instead of really investigating installation problems. Some of them say they don't have the tools or the time to look into grounding or input signal quality, so they send back a lot of perfectly good controllers. It bugs the hell out of me, but I can't force them to become competent troubleshooters.

I recently had a customer swap out six perfectly good PLC-5 controllers because they were "absolutely certain" that one of them was causing communication problems on their DH+. I put an oscilloscope and analyzer on the network and found their blue/shield short circuit in about 40 minutes.

Cleaner said:

...
Please don't start an AB rant here, I really need to know!

Thanks,
Da Cleaner

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You need HIGHER help.

Also, even though upgrade via DF1 is slow, you may not want to trust ethernet to do the firmware upgrade. Was this what you were doing?

harryting said:

Also, even though upgrade via DF1 is slow, you may not want to trust ethernet to do the firmware upgrade.

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DF1 is snail-paced!
I use ethernet all the time, sometimes wireless. I've had occasional glitches, but a power-cycle and/or second attempt have always worked. I think all the glitches have been on -MO2AE's, not processors. I know of a person that killed a -L55 by mistakenly flashing it with -L1 firmware, but AB managed to resurrect it.

We use ControlLogix almost exclusively. The only major issues we have run accross has been with some of the SERCOS stuff. That is usually resolved with an update to the SERCOS controller or the SERCOS based drive itself (mismatches in firmware). All of these items were found/diagnosed by our engineers in the AB knowledgebase (which can be difficult to locate info in sometimes).

As far as faulty controllers goes, we have one that was dead out of the box. I have accidentally killed a couple by loading a version of firmware that was not compatible with the controller with a M1 memory board (DOH!! This was back around version 7, the software may protect you better now). After that I learned to carefully read the controller spec sheets for firmware revision compatabilities. Especially when flashing backwards to a not most current revision.

Other than those minor issues (all but one caused by myself), I have been pleased with the CLX.

Darren

Unfortunately I, too, have to go with the cursed theory. We are not on par with some of the large users on this forum. But I'd say I've been through 15 or 20 CLX processors and have never had a failure. I THOUGHT I had one once. It was an L55M12 that was delivered without the 'M12' (the memory) part installed. Once I put the memory card into the processor it was fine.

I also flash everything over Ethernet. My feeling is, since Ethernet is so much faster than RS-232, I'm decreasing my exposure to a failed firmware download by getting it done as quicklyu as possible. but to be fair, I don't personally know anyone who has whacked a processor due to a failed firmware download using RS-232.

Keith

2nd Question...

OK,
So does anyone know any good witch doctors. Maybe those weren't just chicken bones we found under the building.

Seriously, I don't know what is going on and I don't get answers from tech "support", just "ship it back, it's broke".

I try to stay away from firmware too and was sucessful doing that with the PLC until we tried to upgrade to the new Series B processors due to the ridiculous battery problems with the Series A. Problems ever since.

DF1, ethernet over a hub, crossover cable, all failed on the firmware flash. Separate laptops, separate people, separate firmware versions, same results. Who knows...

I suspect that you have not consulted compatibility matrix of all your modules on the network. Make sure that all modules and processors are at proper version level!
Some modules also have hardware limits which will not allow them to go beyond certain firmware level.
I have managed to brick out few modules myself. For that reason I also hesitate to re-flash unless absolutely necessary.

Cleaner, I know that this of no direct help to you but, like Ken, I've up/downgraded loads of CLX's over serial/ethernet/ControlNet and never had any problems. I doubt that I'm any smarter than you so there must be some factor that's different in your setups.

Have you ever had any sessions that worked? If so what were the versions/comm. setups?

I've always used AC PSU's, what are you using? (Maybe you haven't got dependable backplane DC, that'd certainly screw up a ControlFlash session)
Kamenges, one of my colleagues started a DF1 ControlFlash session from his laptop which was on battery power. Guess what happened when the laptop went into hibernate?

We have been running 2 CotrolLogox systems here for over 2 years now with no problems. We do firmware updates as they become available and have never lost a processor or other piece of hardware. Just have to say I'm glad it's you having that problem and not me! My workload here is bad enough as it is without adding those types of problems to it.

Originally posted by NOP:

Kamenges, one of my colleagues started a DF1 ControlFlash session from his laptop which was on battery power. Guess what happened when the laptop went into hibernate?

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Now THAT wouild make me really sad. I'm just glad I've lucky with firmware changes so far. There I go jinxing myself!!!

Keith

Quick thought: what version of ControlFlash are you using? I don't know of any specific problems but it may be that crucial difference between your setup and the lucky guys........

I'm using 4.00.09 ControlFlash.

I tried it again today with another processor and it failed again. So I turned the key back to program mode and then to run and did this a couple times and I got a green light on the PLC. I went online and the PLC looked ok and it is now running a machine. (Yikes!) We pulled out another laptop and were able to flash it again, (same firmware rev.), and it completed sucessfully, then we tried it again with my laptop and it again completed sucessfully.

I'm beginning to think I need to do the old uninstall/re-install on all my AB stuff. Might be Pandora's Box though...

I've "bricked" just 2 controllogix PLC's in my day, but usually flashing the processors or cards by DF1 has been my most successful and easiest way to get the job done.