Recipes in SCADA software

ayman metwally

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Greetings everybody,

I always here about "Recipes" in the list of features of many SCADA software packages .. So what is it?!!


Recipes make it easy to make large numbers of tag changes with the push of a single button. Create Recipes with up to 99 entries, and multiple sets of values. Then just push a button to load an entire set of values into the group of recipe tags. By C-more
Click to expand...

So is it excatly like what was quoted above?!
If button_1 is pressed Then
Tag_A = 10
Tag_B = 20
Tag_C = 30
If button_2 is pressed Then
Tag_A = 5
Tag_B = 15
Tag_C = 50

And so on ..


Note: It is clear to me that each of button_1 and button_2 may write True in a special tag So each recipe has a tag (Digital) that when is True will excute this recipe.

1- Is it seems like I wrote above ?! or am I misunderstanding it?

2- And in which applications it can be useful ?

Any input is appreciated..

Thanks in advance
 
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1) this is certainly one way that recipes are commonly implemented

2) I come across recipes mainly (but not only) in process control operations in the chemical industry (especially in batch processing plants). If you can imagine an automatic machine to mix ****tail drinks mixing different proportions of alcohol, fruit juice, lemon juices, etc., you've got a pretty good idea of how it works.

In my current project, I'm using the Siemens recipe system in ProTool to allow the operators to prepare new experiments or to save parameters they have just entered for future re-use. For example:

Modules 1 - 11 on Kollektor 1 at 24 kV and Modules 12 - 14 on Kollektor 3 at 24 kV with a delay of 50 ms would be used to build a basic magnetic field of 60T for about 100+ ms. The second pulse50 ms later would superimpose the shorter 10ms 40 T field on the basic field to give a maximum field ot 100T for 10ms - that's the theory, anyway.

By using the recipe system to create and save different experimental parameters, it makes it easy to exactly and reliably repeat experiments at a later date, perhaps using slightly different target materials.
 
Yes, many SCADA systems have built in recipe managers such as wonderware's InBatch. They are very useful when running many different machine setup's for certain products, etc.
 
Tech7 said:
Yes, many SCADA systems have built in recipe managers such as wonderware's InBatch. They are very useful when running many different machine setup's for certain products, etc.
Click to expand...

Some SCADA packages have less-than-wonderful recipe handlers. The recipe handling object in RSViewSE and RSView32 is absolutely dire. When I have to do a sophisticated recipe handling application, I use VBA and Microsoft Access.
 
Thanks every body for replying (especially RMA for answering my questions)

In the last 2 days I took a quick look on Recipes in some of the major SCADA packages (InTouch, iFix, Lookout, RSview) and others

After a quick comparison - in my point of view - I can see that iFix give many advanced functions and at the same time it's simple to understand and intituve, This seems strange to me because I always look at iFix as the hardest to learn compared to inTouch and Citect for example (Yes, It maybe the most powerful but it's the hardest in my point of view)

Some of them are very simple but it -compared to others- only has the minmum recipes functions ( no advanced functions) .. those - again in my openion- are Lookout, Inflink and omron cx-supervisor.

Anyway, I'd like to hear your openions about that.

Thanks
 
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I normally handle recipes in an SQL server database on our Fix system. The Fix recipe application is very powerful but almost all of the extra functionality provided is concerned with tracking changes for batch control and we do not need this. If you are using Fix/iFix then the built in database connectivity probably gives you everything you need.
 
Thanks Andybr for reply,

Actually I have no project in hand about this, But I'm doing some simple researches on a number of topics related to SCADA features that will help me alot in a future project which still in my mind and my personal computer at home!!

I'm really interested in knowing just an overview of what are the needs that Engineers or SIs require related to this topic (Recipes).

It will be very helpful to me if you just give me an overview of the type off application you use recipes in?

And also Does it need more than the (Change some tags values when clicking a button) tecqnique which seems to be the common way of handling Recipes as RMA said before?

Thanks
 
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My normal setup for recipe selection is to store the actual recipe data in a database as I said before. The database also has a field for the product name. When the operator wishes to load a recipe the database is queried to create a drop down list of the available product names and the operator simply selects one of the available products. Using the SQL Server database to store the recipes means that the actual data can be entered and edited by an authorised person using excel so no access to the SCADA server is required.
 
Be very careful about what you expect from a "recipe".

If you take a normal domestic recipe book, this gives you not only a list of ingredients and quantities (eggs, flour, water, milk; number, litres, kilos etc) but also a process description (add, mix, heat, cool). There will also be parameters associated with with the process description (add - at what rate; heat - to what temperature ...)

The simplest form of SCADA recipe control is like adjusting how many eggs are in the sponge. The ingredient can't be changed, the process is fixed, all you control is the number of eggs that get added. Then you get progressively more sophisticated recipe control where, for example, you control multiple ingredients and quantities, and even introduce the idea of scalability. Take a basic sponge - 2 eggs, 500g flour, 500ml milk (or something, who knows?). To make a big sponge you want one 10 times the size so the recipe package automatically scales all the items up by a factor of 10. Ah, but what if you've also defined the baking temperature as a parameter? You most certainly don't want that multiplied by 10! So the recipe package must be aware of what is a scalable parameter and what isn't. And perhaps they're not all linear scaling etc.

Ultimately, you come to full process-oriented control where you can select in advance what your ingredients, quantities and scales are, and also your process operations, in the order you want them with the parameters you require. Perhaps a recipe should also include a definition of the piece of plant equipment in which the operation will be performed. Now we're beginning to look at process streams and batches and integrating multi-batch, multi-stream recipes.

So in answer to what is a recipe, I guess the answer is "It depends - what do you want it to be?"

Regards

Ken
 
You should probably look into the ISA model for recipies and batching at some point for a very good desctiption.

You also need to be aware that a SCADA recipe system is quite different from a true batching system. The batching addon software generally costs sevaral times the HMI software.

I think that WonderWare's recipe manager is pretty good, and I agree that Rockwell shouldn't even advertise theirs as a feature; however I too prefer using a SQL database, and writing a front end for it in the HMI.
 
Andybr said:
My normal setup for recipe selection is to store the actual recipe data in a database as I said before. The database also has a field for the product name. When the operator wishes to load a recipe the database is queried to create a drop down list of the available product names and the operator simply selects one of the available products. Using the SQL Server database to store the recipes means that the actual data can be entered and edited by an authorised person using excel so no access to the SCADA server is required.
Click to expand...
Thanks Andybr,

Well, I can see that your basic setup uses SQL only for security, I mean If you don't care about who is authorized to edit the recipes, Excel - for example - would be just fine ... Right?

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Ayman
 
Database security is handled by the SQL server configuration. User permissions are set up in the SQL Server accounts allocated to the people who access/edit recipes. I normally have seperate accounts for the Fix server, recipe creators/editors and recipe users.
Andy
 
Ken M said:
Be very careful about what you expect from a "recipe".

If you take a normal domestic recipe book, this gives you not only a list of ingredients and quantities (eggs, flour, water, milk; number, litres, kilos etc) but also a process description (add, mix, heat, cool). There will also be parameters associated with with the process description (add - at what rate; heat - to what temperature ...)

The simplest form of SCADA recipe control is like adjusting how many eggs are in the sponge. The ingredient can't be changed, the process is fixed, all you control is the number of eggs that get added. Then you get progressively more sophisticated recipe control where, for example, you control multiple ingredients and quantities, and even introduce the idea of scalability. Take a basic sponge - 2 eggs, 500g flour, 500ml milk (or something, who knows?). To make a big sponge you want one 10 times the size so the recipe package automatically scales all the items up by a factor of 10. Ah, but what if you've also defined the baking temperature as a parameter? You most certainly don't want that multiplied by 10! So the recipe package must be aware of what is a scalable parameter and what isn't. And perhaps they're not all linear scaling etc.
...
Ken
Click to expand...
Thanks Ken,
Very valuable info ..
Can I say that advanced recipes will contain "equations" and "formulas" and not only constant numbers?

For example:

 

Item_1          Item_2          Item_3

const           const          Function of some parameters


Is it the case?
Intellution iFix seems the best from all that I saw, I think it can handle any complicated recipes.
(Warning: An opinion of a a recipe biggener)

Thanks again for sharing your experience.
 
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rdrast said:
You should probably look into the ISA model for recipies and batching at some point for a very good desctiption.

I think that WonderWare's recipe manager is pretty good, and I agree that Rockwell shouldn't even advertise theirs as a feature; however I too prefer using a SQL database, and writing a front end for it in the HMI.
Click to expand...

Thanks rdrast for sharing info,

You are right, Rockwell's RSview - as I can see - has very limited recipe capabilities.
This is the format (in a text file):
1,44
2,65
where the number before comma is the index and the one after the comma is the value .. The question now: Can I use Excel to edit these value?
Excel is very useful to calculate formulas (If there is any) and is faster in development.

You also need to be aware that a SCADA recipe system is quite different from a true batching system. The batching addon software generally costs sevaral times the HMI software.
Click to expand...
Batching!
This another word which I really want to know what does it mean in industry .. It seems to me that it's strongly related to recipes

Thanks again.
Ayman
 

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