Reverse engineering

I wonder...

Is it illegal to document a protocol ?

Example:
Earlier I asked Johnson Controls about the DX9100 protocol specifications. I did not get it but I could get the Metasys N2 open systems protocol...
(It's the same protocol.. The DX9100 version of it have 2 bytes more... it's called the BCC (Block checksum)(I understand that Johnson are famous for that) a small message must have 4 bytes of checksum...And with communication speed of 9600bps it's really slow...
Anyway, a quick search on the internet tells me that there are a lot of OPC servers for DX9100. Either they got the documentation from JC, or they have documented it themselves (Reverse engineered)

The reason that I wonder is that I recently have documented a proprietary lonworks protocol (not lonworks based on SNVT's) between a PLC and the PLC vendors scada frontend.
I also made a OPC server for it.

Is against the law to do this ?
Is it illegal to sell this information to others ?
Is it illegal for me to sell the OPC server for this protocol ?

I suspect that if you re-use any portion of their original source code, that there are copyright issues that you'd face.

However, if you "figured out the protocol" and developed your own code for communicating "as" that proprietary protocol, I can't see what the crime is.

The original protocol is proprietary in order to limit competitors - limiting those who will take the effort to make something compatible.

But for those willing to take the effort, I think it just opens up the competition for the use of that protocol.

caveat - the fact that I read a PLC web forum should be a good indication that I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer, so don't consider my opinion a legal opinion.

Dan

Reverse engineering may be legal.
1, Check if they have a current patent, if not then you should be able to reverse engineer the hardware.
2, For software, patents are not yet legal in many areas of the world. Where they are, you would have to again check for a software patent.
3, Copyright protects the actual source code and implementation. If you simply copy the functionality and not the code, you are OK from a copyright point of view.
4, Simple documentation, i.e. showing how it works should not get you into trouble.
5, I am not a lawyer.

As DanW has indicated, all you're likely to get here is opinions on whether it should or should not be illegal - not whether it is or is not illegal.

Brings to mind the dispute between Allen-Bradley and Sutherland-Shultz over the latter's DH+ and RIO interface modules and software. Don't know what the sticking point(s) was/were but the eventual result was the "enABled" program which licensed RIO technology to equipment manufacturers.

My speculation: it may not have been about protocols but rather about hardware patents.

Not A Lawyer Either

NOT A LAWYER EITHER, but I would venture to bet that if you used the fruits of your talents for profit, you could be tagetted. It would depend on how much money is involved whether or not you would be pursued, but I think there are laws that would protect the proprietary protocol from any unlicensed communication.

Definitely talk to a good attorney to protect and make the most of your hard work!

The following are examples of successfully reverse engineered projects:
- IBM PC
- MS Office, many competators have copied the file formats and look and feel of this program.
- MS DOS, there are several emulators and DOS programs to allow you to run old programs, or just not use Microsoft.

Overall, it depends what IP protection is in use.
Copyright stops you from copying their work and selling it, but does not stop you from implementing the same functionality in your own work.
Patents can stop you from implementing the same functionality, but do not stop you from acheiving the same result using a different functionality.
Proprietry simply means that the system was developed by a particular company and is not an open standard. It does not mean that it is protected in any way other than by company secrecy (MS .doc standard is an example).

The issue is not whether or not it's legal. Will your product cause the other guys enough concern to have their attorneys look at it?
A little guy devolops a product, and competes with the big guy. The big guy sues. The little guy may be perfectly legal, but the big guy has deeper pockets. The little guy gets financially wiped out defending himself. He wins the battle, but looses the war as he bankrupts his company.

The question is whether or not someone will THINK it's illegal. If it will make Johnson Controls mad, then they may sue regardless of legality. All they need is enough to make a case. Attorneys for Patents and Copyright Law are very expensive.

I'm not a lawyer, but have had an experience similar to the one described above.

keithkyll said:

The question is whether or not someone will THINK it's illegal. If it will make Johnson Controls mad, then they may sue regardless of legality. All they need is enough to make a case. Attorneys for Patents and Copyright Law are very expensive.

Click to expand...

This works in reverse fashon also. If your a little guy and a big guy swipes your patent, it's up to you to foot the bill for going after him, and collecting. This could take years and be so costly that it would drive the little guy into the tank. Big money usually wins in the end. Justice is bought, and not necessarly doled out on the basis of equity, hence the need for secrecy and copy protection schemes etc...

If you did indeed "figure out" there code rather than just copy it you should be O.K...For example a friend of mine worked on Oil rig equiptment..His company took an existing FRAK Pumper and improved it..they moved the position of the hydraulic valves, Position of the tank..all in all it was the same desighn..just looked different and they survived the lawsuit..HOWEVER...Notice the "should" in "should be ok"..As Mike said justice is given to the deepest pockets..

That being said if you are small company and selling one or two of these systems you should fall under the radar..Start selling tons of these and you might just become a target...Dont forget..Unfortunatly the law has nothing to do with right and wrong..it has everything to do with how good your lawyer is..