Sounds like simple programming, but anyone have ideas on how to program a HAND-OFF-AUTO selector switch on a touchscreen Panelview 1400. I tried but ended up using 3 different maintained pushbuttons (1 for HAND, 1 for OFF and 1 for AUTO) and doing the logic in the plc.
HAND OFF AUTO on AB panelview
- Thread starter DRThorne
- Start date
Allen Nelson
Member
ANOTHER Panelview question?!?
Instead of maintened PBs, you could use Momentary PBs to have the PLC change the mode.
Arrange the text in a rough semicircle, and place a Guage object between them. Add some code in the PLC to have the guage point to the current mode.
This will then "look like" a selector switch, but you touch the word rather than manipulate the swtich to change modes.
That's probably about the best you are going to do.
If you don't have the space for this, consider momentary PBs which write to one tag, but indicate via another. The inicator tag will show the true state (e.g., what the PLC thinks the mode is), while the write tag is just the "request".
There may be a lag between the Write Tag ===> PLC logic ===> Indicator Tag round trip, but you will never get into a situation where the Panelview shows one thing, while the PLC thinks something else. This also allows you to inhibit mode change requests (i.e., "all devices are automatically set to Auto if a phase is running" requirement).
Instead of maintened PBs, you could use Momentary PBs to have the PLC change the mode.
Arrange the text in a rough semicircle, and place a Guage object between them. Add some code in the PLC to have the guage point to the current mode.
This will then "look like" a selector switch, but you touch the word rather than manipulate the swtich to change modes.
That's probably about the best you are going to do.
If you don't have the space for this, consider momentary PBs which write to one tag, but indicate via another. The inicator tag will show the true state (e.g., what the PLC thinks the mode is), while the write tag is just the "request".
There may be a lag between the Write Tag ===> PLC logic ===> Indicator Tag round trip, but you will never get into a situation where the Panelview shows one thing, while the PLC thinks something else. This also allows you to inhibit mode change requests (i.e., "all devices are automatically set to Auto if a phase is running" requirement).
Last edited:
ndzied1
Lifetime Supporting Member
I've done something similar to this but I didn't really like the solution. You're probably looking at Multistate pushbuttons saying, "Hey... those look kind of like selector switches". But, there is no real substitute for a selector switch in the Panelview.
The problem is the multistate pushbuttons loop around a set of states vs. the back and forth operation of a true selector switch. You could get a little tricky with them and set up 4 states HAND-OFF-AUTO-OFF so from either of the operating states you would always have to return to off but then you can't go OFF - HAND - OFF - HAND which is not good.
You could use 2 PB's and one multistate indicator. One PB would toggle you between hand/off and the other would be for auto/off. The multistate indicator would display which mode is currently active. You could also use the pushbutton indicator tags to show when each button is active ... for instance, when you are in HAND mode, you could grey out the auto pushbutton and vice versa.
OR...............
Use 2 pushbuttons but turn the visibility off. Then have a multistate indicator with the following states:
0 - OFF /*R*/F1 - HAND/*R*/F2-AUTO
1 - AUTO/*R*/F1/F2-OFF
3 - HAND/*R*/F1/F2-OFF
The Code could be something like this...
.
I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure the order of the rungs is important here.
HTH
The problem is the multistate pushbuttons loop around a set of states vs. the back and forth operation of a true selector switch. You could get a little tricky with them and set up 4 states HAND-OFF-AUTO-OFF so from either of the operating states you would always have to return to off but then you can't go OFF - HAND - OFF - HAND which is not good.
You could use 2 PB's and one multistate indicator. One PB would toggle you between hand/off and the other would be for auto/off. The multistate indicator would display which mode is currently active. You could also use the pushbutton indicator tags to show when each button is active ... for instance, when you are in HAND mode, you could grey out the auto pushbutton and vice versa.
OR...............
Use 2 pushbuttons but turn the visibility off. Then have a multistate indicator with the following states:
0 - OFF /*R*/F1 - HAND/*R*/F2-AUTO
1 - AUTO/*R*/F1/F2-OFF
3 - HAND/*R*/F1/F2-OFF
The Code could be something like this...
F1-PB F1-OS
----] [----------[OSR]----------------( )
F2-PB F2-OS
----] [----------[OSR]----------------( )
OFF MODE F1-OS HAND MODE
----] [----+---] [--------------------(L)
|
|
| F2-OS AUTO MODE
+---] [--------------------(L)
OFF MODE F1-OS HAND MODE
----]/[----+-----] [----+----+---------(U)
| | |
| | |
| | |
| F2-OS | | AUTO MODE
+-----] [----+ +---------(U)
HAND MODE AUTO MODE OFF MODE
-----]/[---------]/[-------------------( )
.
.
I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure the order of the rungs is important here.
HTH
Last edited:
HTH, this is similar to what I'm doing now and like you, I'm not happy with the results. Allen Bradley should come up with simple solution for this.
I'm going to work on Allen's idea of pushing the text instead of the graphic, sounds like it will work more like a 3 position selector switch.
I'm going to work on Allen's idea of pushing the text instead of the graphic, sounds like it will work more like a 3 position selector switch.
Terry Woods
Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 3,170
Use 1 Momentary push-button.
OSR MAN
---| |---------------------+---(RST)
|
| AUTO
+---(RST)
|
| WAS PB
+---(RST)
PB1 WAS PB1 MAN AUTO MAN
---| |------|/|------|/|------|/|------+------(SET)
|
| WAS PB1
+------(SET)
PB1 WAS PB1 MAN MAN
---| |------|/|------| |---------------+------(RST)
|
| AUTO
+------(SET)
|
| WAS PB1
+------(SET)
PB1 WAS PB1 AUTO AUTO
---| |------|/|------| |---------------+------(RST)
|
| WAS PB1
+------(SET)
+-------+
PB1 | TMR | “DEBOUNCER” WAS PB1
---|/|------+ +-------------------------(RST)
| .5 S |
+-------+
- Switch is OFF at Start-Up.
- Press PB once to go MANUAL.
- Release PB for at least .5 Sec.
- Press PB again to go AUTO.
- Release PB for at least .5 Sec.
- Press PB again to go OFF.
ndzied1
Lifetime Supporting Member
DRThorne
First off, sorry for the jargon, "HTH" means Hope This Helps in webanese
My name is Norm.
My first suggestion was the one I didn't like, The last one, I think, can be quiet workable. Perhaps the text doesn't convey what I mean, the multistate indicator would look something like what is shown here (note, the words HAND OFF AUTO at the top are just dumb text and not part of the indicator. Each state has an inner graphic to help it look like a selector switch and the text in the indicator states is bottom center justified):
Terry:
That's kind of like my first answer in my previous post. It's Ok, until you want to go from OFF to MANUAL to OFF to MANUAL.... You can't do it without going through AUTO each time.
Anyway, the image here shows the three different states of the same indicator. I never use touch screens because most of our machines are metal cuttting and the coolant and metal chips that the operator can get on their hands wouldn't be tood good for the screen...but I suppose you could set up touch cells on each of the words, HAND/OFF/AUTO to drive the thing. I like that you can toggle back and forth between each state and off w/ the same PB.
Anyway, I hope this explains what I was saying a little better..
First off, sorry for the jargon, "HTH" means Hope This Helps in webanese
My name is Norm.My first suggestion was the one I didn't like, The last one, I think, can be quiet workable. Perhaps the text doesn't convey what I mean, the multistate indicator would look something like what is shown here (note, the words HAND OFF AUTO at the top are just dumb text and not part of the indicator. Each state has an inner graphic to help it look like a selector switch and the text in the indicator states is bottom center justified):
Terry:
That's kind of like my first answer in my previous post. It's Ok, until you want to go from OFF to MANUAL to OFF to MANUAL.... You can't do it without going through AUTO each time.
Anyway, the image here shows the three different states of the same indicator. I never use touch screens because most of our machines are metal cuttting and the coolant and metal chips that the operator can get on their hands wouldn't be tood good for the screen...but I suppose you could set up touch cells on each of the words, HAND/OFF/AUTO to drive the thing. I like that you can toggle back and forth between each state and off w/ the same PB.
Anyway, I hope this explains what I was saying a little better..
john paley
Member
I use the multistate switch configured with an integer tag and the state writes the value--0, 1 or 2--to the word. In the ladder, examine N7:0/0, 1, and 2 off for off--N7:0/1 on for hand--N7:0/2 on for auto. As stated above, these positions "roll" so if your off, you have to roll through "hand" to get to "auto". In some cases, I use timers to delay the action for a 2 or 3 seconds to "skip" the intermediate mode. The up side of this method is you can easily have many selector switch positions.
godfrey
Member
I use a control list selector with three states. I can pick any state with out rolling through the list.
ndzied1
Lifetime Supporting Member
It is possible ... just not With AB
I was just starting to think that there is no real analog for a selector switch on an HMI but then I rememberd how the PanelMATE from Eaton/Cutler Hammer works.
You select a device using the array of buttons at the bottom of the screen. Then, for each device, you get 3, 4, or 5 command buttons(depending on the model) along the right side of the screen.
So... you have a 3,4,or 5 position selector switch right there.
Another thing I like about the PanelMATE is that you get feedback when the alarm screen is up. I wish AB could set a flag when the alarm banner is displayed on the PanelVIEW . That might go a long way to our addressing our recent discussion about resetting alarms.
I was just starting to think that there is no real analog for a selector switch on an HMI but then I rememberd how the PanelMATE from Eaton/Cutler Hammer works.
You select a device using the array of buttons at the bottom of the screen. Then, for each device, you get 3, 4, or 5 command buttons(depending on the model) along the right side of the screen.
So... you have a 3,4,or 5 position selector switch right there.
Another thing I like about the PanelMATE is that you get feedback when the alarm screen is up. I wish AB could set a flag when the alarm banner is displayed on the PanelVIEW
. That might go a long way to our addressing our recent discussion about resetting alarms.Allen Nelson
Member
The future....?
Well, maybe something good with happen IF Eaton buys Rockwell later this month, as rumor says.
Rockwell has also been working on their RSViewME line, which looks like a panelview, but acts like a full-blown SCADA (eliminating the Panelview's limitations of only one tag to describe all animations of an object (althpough even in RSView, I still animate a selector switch by clicking on the text, and have the knob rotate. If you think about it, that's what you're doing on the PanelMate also, with the text nexts to the buttons on the side.)
Well, maybe something good with happen IF Eaton buys Rockwell later this month, as rumor says.
Rockwell has also been working on their RSViewME line, which looks like a panelview, but acts like a full-blown SCADA (eliminating the Panelview's limitations of only one tag to describe all animations of an object (althpough even in RSView, I still animate a selector switch by clicking on the text, and have the knob rotate. If you think about it, that's what you're doing on the PanelMate also, with the text nexts to the buttons on the side.)
Allen Nelson
Member
I allow it, yes (no different than a physical selector switch turned real fast), but you don't have to if you want to. The text PBs are just Requests to change from one state to another. The gauge object points to the current state.
There are four tags involved, not just one.
The PLC, not the HMI, determines whether a "state change request" will be honored or not, or how it will be. If you want to have the state go from HAND to OFF when you press AUTO, so be it.
I've tried using the multistate object (using three bitmaps like Norm shows, but on a touchscreen, not a keypad model), and I've found that the commication delay between the Panelview changing the state and then reading the state back (even using the same tage fo Write and Indication) was too long, and that the operator would think he did something wronq, which would change the state again (to something that he didn't want, so now he has to press the button twice..... It didn't work very well.)
Since Norm has a keypad type, he gets to use two keys to changes state, and change it only by one. He could be allow the operator to go directly from HAND to AUTO, but choses not to.
Is there a reason for this question (a safety issue that you think I'm missing)?
There are four tags involved, not just one.
The PLC, not the HMI, determines whether a "state change request" will be honored or not, or how it will be. If you want to have the state go from HAND to OFF when you press AUTO, so be it.
I've tried using the multistate object (using three bitmaps like Norm shows, but on a touchscreen, not a keypad model), and I've found that the commication delay between the Panelview changing the state and then reading the state back (even using the same tage fo Write and Indication) was too long, and that the operator would think he did something wronq, which would change the state again (to something that he didn't want, so now he has to press the button twice..... It didn't work very well.)
Since Norm has a keypad type, he gets to use two keys to changes state, and change it only by one. He could be allow the operator to go directly from HAND to AUTO, but choses not to.
Is there a reason for this question (a safety issue that you think I'm missing)?
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