B & R Plc

craigsimon

Member
Join Date
Apr 2002
Location
Minnesota
Posts
93
We recently purchased a machine that has B&R 2005 PLC and B&R ACOPOS servo with B&R Automation Studio. I have used many different PLCs and many different HMI in the past, but have never used B&R. This machine is used in a cnc type application. This hardware and software looks and works good, but the software maintenance is much different than a “normal” PLC. I am looking at designing a cnc type machine in house and was wondering if anybody has anything good or bad to say about this setup. Also does anybody have alternative setups for a cnc type machine. I have receive and explored the B&R demo software, but am not comfortable with the software.
Any comments would be helpfull.
 
Believe me you have got the wonderful package from B&R !

If you are a conventional PLC user using AB,GE,Modicon,Siemens and others, which will never come even close to B&R as far as the concept and features B&R offers.I agree, there is a small learning curve involved in order to fully exploit the power of B&R PLC,infact PCC's (Programmable Computer Controller) which is much more powerful than conventional PLC's.
B&R has multitasking operating system and even the lower end B&R CPU supports programming in C Language without any additional cost to you like other PLCs.If you are not comfortable with C, you can use Automation Basic,Structured Text,Sequential Flow Chart or even Ladder Diagram.You will have to never play with those nasty PLC registers and I/O addressing.I programmed B&R PLCs in C as well as Automation Basic and believe me its a fun !Its just totally different approach to PLC programming.I suggest you start with Automation Basic and they move to C.I bet you can implement any complex logic (which is a part of any CNC/Positioning application) easily in these languages compared to Ladder Diagram.
Also B&R has special processors for handling CNC applications alongwith powerful servo drives. so B&R can handle any CNC or Positioning application.Just spend some time reading B&R training manuals and getting familiar with the Automation Studio.You can also attend training program at B&R subsidiary in USA.I can assure you that you will never regret choosing B&R.

Wish you a luck !

Ex B&R India Employee, who has also hands on AB,GE,Siemens,Modicon,Mitusbishi,Messung PLCs ;)
 
Not agreeing

I suffer under four B&R machines of the 2005 type, with multiple servo control.

These things are ridiculously overcomplicated. The operating system has to be burned into firmware, module by module, in a scheme that make you think Bill Gates was one of the developers.

The application memory is battery-backed RAM with gold leaf capacitor, nicad and lithium batteries for triple redundancy. Hey, guys, ever hear of an eeprom?

On my system, automation suite will not work. The servo controller used somehow dictates to the CPU that only PG2000 dos software can be used with it. Thant's like sticking a servo card in a SLC and finding out you have to program your 5/04 with AI software. What the heck?!

I've never seen a system so completely user un-friendly. I hate them. Rip them out. Install Giddings and Lewis. Then burn the 2005s and scatter the ashes to the winds.




TM
 
As i said earlier B&R is a totally different concept,like MAC and you have to THINK DIFFERENT to understand them! B&R concepts are modern and innovative than other compititors in Industrial Automation market.
Even i had many sleepless nights after joining B&R as it was totally new concept for me too ! I used to work for Messung/Mitsubishi before joining B&R.
Yeah i agree you have to burn the appropriate operating system version in B&R CPU before using it and in other PLCs OS is factory installed. The reason B&R did this because they always think about furure.So if you wish to add some new features to the system you dont have to throw out your old hardware you have to just update the version of OS (Similar to Windows 95 to XP).Also its not module by module in your case, its just because your system has multiple CPUs (one CPU will be dedicated only for Motion control)
As far as memory is concerned its a user's choice.B&R also has EEPROM/FlashPROM memory modules.Your supplier might have choosed the battery backup RAM module.
I guess you have a system which was developed when B&R Servo's were just introduced in the market and the programming package Automation Studio was in Infant stage.I guess nowdays Automation Studio is a single platform for programming all B&R products.
I can't comment on Giddings and Lewis as i never used them but as it uses 1970's Ladder Diagram for programming it will not be my choice. I hate Ladder Diagrams.Even technicians can do it why you need an Engineer ? ;) Think and do something Different !
 
B&R

Thanks both Timothy and hey_rajan for your comments. I like to hear from normal users like Timothy and of course hey_rajan will be somewhat biased. We have not purchased any components yet, but we have quotes and I will be going to training on automation studio. From training I will be able to judge better what their software is like. Getting our maintenance to learn B&R to support the machine after I design it will be tough. That is more what I am worried about now.

Thanks for the info.
 
Well first let me make it clear that i am not getting a single penny from B&R guys for saying good things about them ;)
My openion is based on my 8 years of experience as a PLC/SCADA Programmer.Nowdays i am programming American brands (AB,GE) but miss the fun i had with B&R PLC's.B&R rocks !! As always Programmer's and User's view are always different ! So its your call now !! Let me know your openion after attending the training program.As far as maintainence is concerned its nothing different than other PLC's.I will be happy to answer your queries about B&R as i have worked for 3 years on B&R systems and was also trained at their world headquarters in Austria.
Wish you a luck :)
 
Guys,

You should see the latest range of B&R's Power Panels these will blow your socks off, built in I/O with plug in expansion I/O module facilities, CAN bus, and a stack of other facilities. These items are fantastic.
 
I can't comment on Giddings and Lewis as i never used them but as it uses 1970's Ladder Diagram for programming it will not be my choice. I hate Ladder Diagrams.Even technicians can do it why you need an Engineer ? ;) Think and do something Different !


Sounds like B&R should be your choice if you want to maximize your job security, rather than installing a system that can be maintained by mere technicians.
 
I'm also an ex B&R user and huge advocate of B&R. The first time I used a Rockwell PLC after learning on B&R, it was like I stepped back in time 15 years (BootP, ControlFlash, RSLinx? Why do you still need that ****?). The 2005 system is about 15 years old (it didn't come out in 2005) and they don't sell it for new projects anymore, you'd most likely be working on something like a PP500 (HMI/PLC combo) or an APC (Automation PC, beefy, no moving parts, no cables, can run VxWorks straight up or on top of Windows). They also will slap a touch screen right onto an APC and call it a panel PC. Their hardware is top notch and they have the highest performance servo drives available.

B&R just revamped their CNC capabilities and they are untouchable as far as being able to do CNC and other things at the same time. If you're looking at a CR Onsrud machine, they still use an older version of the CNC programming because they were designed before the revamp (they're actively working to change over, great machines, those). It's really easy to mix and match CNC based commands and standard motion commands and you can tie regular logic (like IO control) to the path. Their CNC doesn't just do routing tables, you can do any robotics kinematics with it too and they have high end compensation for mechanical defects to create perfectly straight paths.

A lot of people that gripe about B&R are using really old stuff with a program written in German using a development environment that runs on DOS. They've come a long way since then and have, hands down, the best programming environment on the market (AS4.X, it does have a learning curve if you're used to Logix5000 but it would be familiar to Codesys people). To clear up some info about firmware, you pick what version of motion control, runtime, HMI, and safety you want up front from a menu and then you never worry about it again. Want to upgrade, just download a new version from the upgrade menu (no website searches needed) and select it in the menu, done. All the IO, drives, etc get their firmware updated or downgraded by the PLC automatically and all drive parameters come from the PLC at boot, including VFDs. The entire program is usually stored on a CF card with redundant partitions to prevent corruption, so if the PLC eats it (operator puts a screwdriver through the screen), you just put the card in a new one and you're on your way.

Their only real competitor is Beckhoff now that Elau is basically dying at the hands of Schneider and B&R is simply better than either anyway.
 
sorry sir craig. im new here and just browsing for some forums about BnR. sorry if post on a wrong topic.

Best thing to do is to start your own thread....That way all of your questions (and other peoples responses) are together and everything is on-topic.

You've posted in 2 or 3 different old threads so far, and this is just going to confuse everyone.
 
b&r automation stuio

Hello everybody!i have a problem with b&r automation studio.I've never used this program.I uploaded hardwere from 4pp065-0571-x74.after that i don't see logical structure.i see only variables.i don't see source code.how can i change it?can i open source code?sorry for my english.please help me:oops:
 

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