Wonderware Issues

Hi,

I have a wonderware terminal (v7.1) connected to a main plc via an ethernet router. The main plc is connected to several plc's through a fiber ethernet network card. The PLC's are directlogic 205's (260cpu's). I am using dsdata as the opc server. All is well with this setup. However, I am tryig to link to the plc's through the router with my laptop via ethernet with directsoft. I attempt to set up the link and I am able to see all the plc's on the network; but, when I attempt to establish communication with any of them I get an unsuccessful message. This brings me to my questions:

Is it possible to communicate to these plc's with wonderware communicating to them?

Secondly, if I wanted to communicate to this plc from another wonderware terminal within the network (running an entirely different program but I need to control certain tags in this plc) would that be possible, to essentially communicate to the same plc via ethernet from two differnet wonderware terminals on the same network?


Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

SG

1. You'll have to better define what's going on with "seeing all the plcs" versus "establishing communication". Your broadcast packets won't get passed over the router, which could account for the difference. Again, more info needed (what software are you using in both cases, do you define IP addresses for either setup, or does it "autodetect", are you going through DSdata in either/both cases?)

2. You should have no problem connecting to the PLC via OPC with Wonderware communicating. You might notice a slow down due to increased traffic, but hopefully nothing significant. The easiest way to test this is to close wonderware or disconnect the client and try it out.

3. I am not that familiar with your setup, but can't imagine how your last request could possibly pose a problem.

More opinions would be good on some of your questions. I think that your earlier ones are more of networking questions than Wonderware ones. I'm happy to help if I can.

It's been years ago that I did this and I don't have access to and AD stuff anymore, so I can't tell you any details, but it does all work as you think it ought.

At a plant where I used to work, we had installed a system with 36 DL260s and 5 WonderWare stations. All could be live at the same time, plus I was able to be online with as many PLCs as I wished with DirectSoft.

Can you connect to the PLCs directly with DirectSoft -- ie, with a crossover cable and NOT through the router?? I suspect your problem is in the DS config. Unfortunately, as I already mentioned, I don't have access to DirectSoft anymore, so won't be able to provide any guidance...

Thanks for the responses.

In regard to the first reply, here is a more detailed explanation of my setup. What I mean by the see the PLC's is that when I use the DSLaunch Link Wizard and attempt to set up a new ethernet link, select the options of Winsock and UDP/IP, the next step shows the modules that exist on the ethernet connection; this is displayed under module list, and all associated address fields show up automatically (and correctly) in terms of module ID and ethernet address. I attempt to use the Module ID as the addressing mode -- I do this because the DSData Link setup wizard on the W/W terminal is exactly the same as the Directsoft32 wizard, and this matches the current setup under the DSData OPC server. After selecting a plc from the list, and hit next, the communication is attempted and then fails soon afterwards with a "error connecting to ethernet device".

I am using a standard patch cable from my laptop to the router, the same way that the w/w terminal connects to the router. I just want to be able to see the ladder logic program in Directsoft with the system operating, but this wizard setup is the same as the DSData (OPC) setup on the w/w terminal, as I said.

I have also tried to manually set up the link using the wizard link editor, but this was unsuccessful as well even when I used the auto detect function.

This is a closed network between the w/w terminal and the field PLC's, so there is no DHCP assigning of an IP to the w/w terminal. It shows the default IP address that windows assigns when no IP has been assigned under ipconfig (cmd prompt).

My laptop IP is set to 192.168.0.8 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0, which is the alternate configuration that I use for programming Panel views and the like.

Does this help clarify? I hope so. Also, can you explain the issue with the broadcast packets not passing over the router? I appreciate any further help.

P.S. I have not tried to connect using a cross-over cable to the PLC at this point, simply because I need to ideally connect with wonderware operating and did not want to break that connection. I should try in addition to going throught the router I suppose.

Thanks,

SG

What is the IP address of the WW and PLCs? They'll need to be 192.168.0.xxx for your notebook to connect. Or you need to change your notebook IP to be in the same subnet with them. It doesn't matter whether it's DHCP or static IP addresses.

Thanks OZEE!

So, I can connect to each of the PLC's on the network using UDP/IP instead of IPX in the link wizard. Here's the catch, and the problem. Each PLC (ECOM) card is using totally different IP subnets; example,one is set to 1.1.1.1, another at 222.222.222.222. I can connect each one independently by setting my IP to 1.1.1.3 to communicate to the first (for example), but only that one until I modify it to talk to another. What I don't get, and I'll show my ignorance I'm sure, is that the w/w terminal for 1) has a default windows IP address 169.something.something.something and a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0, which is the windows default when one is not assigned (this meaning it could not comm to all PLC's with a TCP/IP protocol, and 2) the IPX protocol is selected in the link wizard in DSData (OPC server) for each link to each PLC rather than the UDP/IP protocol I select to communicate to the PLC's. I know nothing about IPX??? When I select IPX protocol and try to set up a link, cannot communicate to any of the PLC's, and they do not show up in the module list as before, so essentially I see nothing on the network.

I do have the windows IPX protocol and the TCP/IP protocol installed for my ethernet adapter, but simply cannot get my setup to work like the dsdata setup, even with all apparent settings the same; surely I am missing something important.

But, nonetheless, thanks for the point in the right direction.

SG

It sounds like the problem was much more fundamental than I had assumed. I would highly recommend doing a quick Google search on simple TCP/IP, specifically "subnets" - it'll clear things up significantly. The default Windows addressing doesn't mean that you can't communicate with devices - it occurs when you haven't manually set an IP address and a DHCP server is unavailable (Google DHCP too - it's a "server" that assigns IP addresses).

The bottom line is that computers on different subnets can't talk to each other directly - they can do so via routers, based on their "default gateway".

The default IPX/SPX protocol settings will allow compatible addresses, so your computers on the network may be able to communicate without configuration. I don't think that Wonderware will work properly over IPX, but I could be wrong.

The thing to do would be to get your IP address scheme set up consistently. Your earlier post suggesting 192.168.0.x with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 sounds perfect. Is it an option to configure the PLCs to be on the same subnet? Is there some reason why they have such random addresses? There are tricks that you could employ to communicate with all the PLCs via that same workstation, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Thanks for the info. I don't have a good answer for why the addressing is so random, other than the IP addresses of the ECOM's are set as the module #, like module # 1 (set with dip switches in ecom card) has an IP set to 1.1.1.1; this is the same pattern for all ECOM's.

The workstation presently has no issue communicating to all the ecom's, which is still a question mark for me. I am just unable to do the same with my laptop through the router. I have checked again, and all links from the workstation are set up as IPX. You mentioned something about the default gateway, is it possible this is how the workstation is talking to all ecom's? Or, are some of the tricks you mentioned in place, and how could I check for this?

Unless I'm mistaken, Wonderware would not have to be compatible with the IPX protocol, in that the OPC server (dsdata) is talking to all PLC's via IPX, but wonderware only has to comm to the OPC server, therfore can communicate with several different protocols to the OPC depending on how it was set up.

Thanks for your help,

SG

Sorry I'm so late on the response. The troubleshooting that I was mentioning was TCP/IP based (default gateway and such). I'm surprised that the PLC communicates over IPX.

It's also very likely that your router probably does TCP/IP and not IPX routing (IPX is a routable protocol).

I think you really need to set up a direct connection with the laptop (remove WW from the picture for troubleshooting to simplify) and see if you can connect. It'd be interesting to remove the TCP/IP or IPX/SPX protocol and see how you're actually connecting.

I meant to post to this thread some time ago, but it slipped past me. But better late than never.

The problem is with your network configuration. To start, the IP addresses that are assigned to your ECOMs are incorrect. Not only are the addresses on different networks (meaning you cannot communicate with them with the subnet mask you have), but they are assigned Public IP address.

Is this a problem? For you yes, when your router sees a packet for an IP address outside it’s network (an address other than 192.168.0.XXX) it will try to send that packet out on the Internet (or to it’s Uplink port). Is this a problem for the person who actually ‘owns’ this Public IP address? If your router isn’t connected to the Internet, then defiantly not. If your router is connected to the Internet, then you will be sending packets to that IP address. Probably still not a problem since the server at that Public IP address would more than likely dump that packet since it wouldn’t know what it is, but then you’re still sending unnecessary traffic out on the Internet to a Public IP address.

So why is InTouch able to communicate with the PLCs but you can not? Well, DSData is using IPX, which does not use IP addresses for sending packets. IPX uses MAC addresses for sending packets. Every Ethernet device has a unique MAC address, which has nothing to do with it’s IP address. Hence, it doesn’t matter what the IP addresses your ECOMs are set to for DSData to communicate with them. But you have selected the IPX protocol in Directsoft32 on your laptop, why can’t you communicate with the ECOMs? I would guess that you don’t have the IPX protocol installed for your ethernet card. Do you need to have it installed? Not if your network is set-up correctly, if you network isn’t set-up correctly then yes. You could compare the ethernet card settings in the server to the ethernet card settings in your laptop. I would guess that you will see the IPX protocol installed on the server but not on your laptop.

To fix your network I would change your ECOM addresses to private addresses. Private IP address ranges are 10.0.0.0 – 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0 – 172.31.255.255, and 192.168.0.0 – 192.168.255.255.

What addresses should you use for your ECOMs? Depends on what else you have on your network. You said that your server is set to 169.???.???.???, that’s not a private IP address and I can’t tell you why it’s set to that. Your router is using 192.168.0.XXX. If the only things on the network are the ECOMs, server, and your laptop I would use 192.168.0.XXX with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0