beginner needs clear answer

I am a control installer that uses circon/echelon technology. I am trying to learn more about plcs in general because I want to build renewable energy experiments. My question is this: MUST I choose a platform (AB,Omron,Siemens...) and then be locked in to using proprietary products and or software. I guess I want to know if there is the possibility of using- for example- an AB Micrologix 1000 without having to use RsLogix software. Is there a universal software(language) that I could learn about to be able to utilize any/all PLCs??????? Thanks!

[email protected] said:

... Is there a universal software(language) that I could learn about to be able to utilize any/all PLCs??????? Thanks!

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If you choose to program in 'ladder', you could use ladder in most PLC's, but you can not learn RSLogix (AB) and then use a Siemens PLC and program using that software

Is it you need to use several different brands? or you just dont want to spend the money for the software?

EDIT: The vast majority of PLC can use different platforms, you can have devicenet on several different PLC's or Modbus, so I don't think from the hardware side you are lock into only one brand, the are trying to have more open platforms, If you explain what you are needing to do someone may have a suggestion of a brand that you can look at that may fit your application good

I don't mind buying software but I AM kind of lost as to where a good place "to jump in" would be !? There is an abundance of "opinion" about what platform to invest in. I have already spent QUITE a bit just "wandering aimlessly" and seem to find that I apparently need to make a fairly large investment in any one to be able to actually learn by experiment.

Read my EDIT above, and also give a little more detail of what you are trying to do....you will get a LOT of advice from the users of this forum

some good, some bad...I will tell whats good

Depending on the size of your programs... Automation Direct, Siemens and Allen Bradley have free software, that you could get a feel of the different platforms

all of the free software has size limits of some sorts

Thanks- I will look at devicenet and/or modbus as that sounds like it will enlighten me or at least help me begin to understand!

[email protected] said:

Thanks- I will look at devicenet and/or modbus as that sounds like it will enlighten me or at least help me begin to understand!

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I THINK you would have the best luck with Ethernet... There are a lot of manufactures that offer a ton of devices that can run on that platform, it just depends on what you need to do on the other end

I bought an AB Micrologix 1000 with a keypad and I have downloaded RSLogix 5000 v15 demo- so could I actually begin doing something with that??
My vision is solar steam/turbine electicity. I want to preheat the water in a stationary solar heater and then flash the HOT water to steam in 2-axis tracking parabolic furnace. I want to do tracking, valve control, pressure sensing, temp sensing, data logging, control of the generation (for cogeneration), ... etc. But I just want to begin for example with the preheat system and study it's capabilities and then take off from there.

[email protected] said:

I bought an AB Micrologix 1000 with a keypad and I have downloaded RSLogix 5000 v15 demo- so could I actually begin doing something with that??.

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No, what 1000 do you have? the 1761-L10... can be ran with the Free software, the software you have is for the CLX 5000 and you can only program the 5000 with that...

But remember ladder is ladder, look at the top of the page to learn ladder "learn PLCS"

[email protected] said:

My vision is solar steam/turbine electicity. I want to preheat the water in a stationary solar heater and then flash the HOT water to steam in 2-axis tracking parabolic furnace. I want to do tracking, valve control, pressure sensing, temp sensing, data logging, control of the generation (for cogeneration), ... etc. But I just want to begin for example with the preheat system and study it's capabilities and then take off from there.

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Sounds like a fun project, will you be needing a motion controller? (the 2-axis ?) what are the inputs and outputs you will be needing? analog? discrete I/O

[email protected] said:

My question is this: MUST I choose a platform (AB,Omron,Siemens...) and then be locked in to using proprietary products and or software. I guess I want to know if there is the possibility of using- for example- an AB Micrologix 1000 without having to use RsLogix software. Is there a universal software(language) that I could learn about to be able to utilize any/all PLCs??????? Thanks!

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Pretty much all of the industrial controllers available require you to use their programming software. Certainly the three manufacturers you mentioned do. There is no universal programming software that works on multiple vendors.

[email protected] said:

I bought an AB Micrologix 1000 with a keypad and I have downloaded RSLogix 5000 v15 demo- so could I actually begin doing something with that??

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Even within a single manufacturer's product line, you have different programming software for different hardware. A-B for instance has three current major product lines, each with their own programming software. The Micrologix family of PLCs is programmed with RSLogix500 (which is also used for the SLC500 family). The RSLogix5000 demo software you have is for the "Logix family" which includes ControlLogix, CompactLogix, and FlexLogix processors, but NOT the MicroLogix. (Yeah, I know it seems unnecessarily confusing.)

Good luck,

getting the horse before the cart ...

Greetings [email protected] ...



and welcome to the forum ...



let me follow up on the advice from my distinguished colleague geniusintraining ...



this is just a suggestion based on what you’ve posted so far ... rather than tackling the PLC end of things first, I recommend that you concentrate on the real-world inputs and outputs instead ...



plan of attack: figure out what type of motors, pumps, actuators, sensors, switches, etc. you’re going to need to make this project work ... I’d separate that into at least two lists ... one for your “right-now-getting-started” tasks ... and another for your “final-all-the-bells-and-whistles” version ... again, just concentrate on what physical HARDWARE it’s going to take to pull this project off - and NOT on the controller - and NOT on the programming software ...



then once you’ve got your list(s) of hardware together, the next step is usually to make an “I/O listing” ... specifically, how many 120VAC inputs - and outputs - you’re going to have to deal with ... also how many 24VDC inputs - and outputs ... how many 4-20mA analog signals ... how many and what type of linear positioners - linear transducers - etc. - etc. ... once you’ve got that “this-is-all-the-stuff-I-need-to-hook-up-to-my-controller” list together, then post everything that you can about your project here on the forum ... the guys here will be glad to help you decide what brand and type of controller will best meet your needs ... and also exactly what type of software you’ll need to program it ...



basically the “big-picture” idea is this ... pretend that YOU are the controller ... what types of input signals (and how many of them) would YOU have to “look at” in order to adequately control your system? ... also what types of output signals (and how many of them) would YOU have to “drive” in order to adequately control your system? ... now once you know the answer to those questions, THEN you’re ready to start specifying - and purchasing - and programming - the controller ...



now to answer one of your specific questions:

I bought an AB Micrologix 1000 ...

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this sounds woefully inadequate for some of the “final-version” tasks that you mentioned ... it MIGHT get you started on the “rock-bottom” end of things, but if I adequately understand your project, you’re certainly going to have to “upgrade” somewhere along the way - probably sooner rather than later ... if I were you, I’d bite the bullet and put this nifty little item on the shelf for some other smaller project ...

I have downloaded RSLogix 5000 v15 demo

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sorry ... the RSLogix5000 software will NOT work with the MicroLogix platform ... for that little processor you’ll need RSLogix500 ... but I recommend that you do NOT go out and buy anything else just yet ... at least not until you have a much better idea of how much controller “horsepower” you’re eventually going to need ... and we can’t really decide much about THAT until we know more about WHAT you’re going to have to control ...



hope this helps ... good luck with your project ...

PS edit ... I see that my colleague mellis (also distinguished) has just posted while I was typing away ...

(Yeah, I know it seems unnecessarily confusing.)

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I'll certainly go along with that - 100% ...

Definately follow Ron's advice first.

If you are going to "play", Omron would probably be best for you. You would have to buy the CX-One software but it does come complete with a simulator, screen software, motion software, a complete package.

CX-One will program ALL the current PLCs and convert most of the software from the older PLCs to the new ones as well. It will also automatically convert the program from a "shoe box" style to a "rack style" for you automatically with very little "fiddling" to do to get I/O in the right places. It is also reasonably priced.

You will find with most brands of PLC, as demonstrated in previous anwers, you will require several sets of software and one set for one PLC type will not automatically convert the software from a different PLC for you. You will also probably need a separate set of software for screens. Can become hugely expensive.

Most manufacturers support Device Net and there is a heap of gear out there from different manufacturers. There is also good support for Profibus from the European manufacturers but most others manufactureres appear to be not that interested. AB are heavily into Ethernet I/P but most others are not. Omron are now into CompoNet - it is high speed bus that shows great promise - no special cables just a twisted pair - token ring based (no crashes) but only supports one master in the loop. I do not believe anyone else has jumped on board but feel sure they will - it is about half the price of Device Net.

You can find out about the various busses by visiting some of the websites. For example, Device Net, Ethernet I/P and CompoNet are all controlled by ODVA - www.odva.org - there are also sites around for Modbus, Profibus etc.

Thankyou!

Hi Guys, Thankyou very much! I am just letting you know for now I AM listening and appreciate your help. I am going to spend some time digesting all the info and begin a count of devices and try to pin down some particulars- like thermocouple?- lookup tables to track sun?- or sensing?.... etc. I have a Micrologix 1000- 1761-L32BWA with HHP BUT I am really having trouble getting RsLogix500 "trial/demo" that WORKS- 5000 set up and gave me a 90 day trial NO PROBLEM- RIGHT!?! Of course! The only way I've found to get 500 is to SPEND $500 (545 actually). Well gotta run- Thanks!

BobB said:

Definately follow Ron's advice first

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Yep...




Believe it or not...With BobB's great answer he left one out, you can also look at Mitsubishi with CC-Link, I have several Q-series that are very fast and reliable, just one more to think about

I read article about CC-Link several months ago from a engineering magazine, I was very impressed....but I also think it may have been somewhat of a advertisement