UL Certification On Motor Control Panels

I was curious; of the members who build panels, how often do you have to have a panel UL certified.

As some of you know I design and build panels for use in-house where I work. Mostly conveyor systems, but some other small panels. I just did two 6 motor panels and I'm in the middle of a 30 motor panel. The city of Fort Worth won't pass my electrical inspection unless the MCPs are UL tested. Luckily, we build the panels to 508A, so it's not a problem to get stickered. My local UL inspector is very thorough and helpful as well, and except for the $1400 dollars per panel, my relationship with UL has been great. But I was curious if others have this situation as well.

We have a UL panel shop but we generally only label the panels when required to do so by the customer. Less work for me when we don't have to do it. Just call it laziness.

I think this is municipality specific. As always, I could be wrong. But I'm not aware of any municipalities in Wisconsin that require panels to be UL certified. I do know that stuff we send to Chicago as well as the L.A. area requires UL certification. I'm sure there are many more that I haven't run across yet. But in general the panels we provide are not UL certified.

Keith

UL-508 is like a fungus - it is spreading. Our UL guy has said that the next version of the NEC is going to require UL on all industrial panels. By reference that means that most municipalities will eventually require it, since they usually refer to NEC requirements in local codes.

The quality of UL inspectors is falling. We have recently had some incredibly bone headed rulings by the inspector. The sad part is that right or wrong they have the ability to cause a lot of headaches.

Headaches, I agree. But I now have to have every panel inspected and labeled--even if I buy it on a machine we put in our system. That's the headache part. Granted the UL requirement is a local law by the City of Fort Worth, but it reaches out to machines made in, say, Washington state.


So, if I bought a panel from Tom, Keith or anyone else, even if Tom or Keith is not required to cert it, I have to get it certed before the city will sign off my my electrical inspection. I guess I could more easily understand this if it were just MY panels that are built in-house for in-house use. But to have to have machine panels labeled as well, and at $1400 per, that's a headache.

Wonder how it's going to work out when someone else's panel doesn't pass?

Rube said:

Wonder how it's going to work out when someone else's panel doesn't pass?

Click to expand...

If you are referring to local electrical inspections it shouldn't be an issue. If the inspector sees that it is a UL listed industrial control panel that is all he is going to be looking for. It's up to the UL rep. to ensure that UL panels are built to UL spec., whether in house or by field inspection. If something is discovered by the UL rep. during the field inspection it just needs to be corrected before it can be labeled. However, it's a whole lot less headache to UL list the panel before it gets installed in the field.

"If something is discovered by the UL rep. during the field inspection it just needs to be corrected before it can be labeled."


That's my point exactly, though, RTA. If, for example, I buy a non-tested panel from you and wire it up, I have to pay for it to be inspected before I pass my electrical. If you have really butchered it somehow, I have to correct it to UL's liking before calling for my electrical inspection.

You are correct that, as an OEM, we aren't "required" to provide a UL certified panel by the local jurisdiction of the final destination of the panel. As Rube states that is ultimately the resoponsibility of the end user. However, we are ultimately often required to provide a UL certified panel if we want to do business with companies that require UL certification prior to putting systems into use. So even though I build the panels in Brillion, WI and have no obligation by code to get UL certification I may need to do it to satisfy a customer requirement in the customer PO to me.

Conversely, if I am building a control panel in Fort Worth that is destined for Brillion, WI the customer will very likely not request UL certification. As a panel builder I am under no obligation to have it UL certified even though it is being build in a locale that requires UL certified panels.

It comes down to the PO. If you are in a locale that requires UL certification before use, make sure you list UL certification of the panels prior to delivery on the PO. It may cost you some extra money but in the end it will be worth it.

Keith

It is my intent to open a panel shop in the near future--stepping out on my own. My plan is to build panels as I have for years now, to 508A, and if the panel is in a jurisdiction that requires the silver sticker, I will know that beforehand and bill accordingly.

My question was to find out how many others had to do so, since I didn't think it was that widespread a requirement yet. The good thing is that now that I have built three that have been certified, I feel very comfortable with the ability to do so.

We have been a 508A shop for a few years now but only put the label on those jobs specifically requesting it. While we generally build panels that would pass, we don't go through all the labeling issues unless we have to.

Moeller builds some panels for us and they do all their panels to 508A. I suppose if you do it all the time it becomes second nature.

As an OEM we pay a yearly fee and then quartly fees for the random inspections that they come in an perform. I believe if we were doing over a certain number of panels per month then they would come in monthly.

I don't think it is a fungus but, like any specification, it can become confusing and contradictory...

In Canada, any piece of equipment has to have some agency certify it, (UL, CSA, ESA) before it can legally be energized. If it is a new installation, the first thing an electrical inspector looks for is the sticker.


Any panel that I have had inspected usually runs around $400.00. I think CSA charges an hourly rate of $120.00. The $1,400.00 that the OP stated seens pretty steep to me.


Derek

I agree that $1400 is steep but not much I can do about it. We contacted other testing companies and they were even higher than that.

We are an OEM and have been building ALL our panels/enclosures to the UL508A standard for ten years and subscribe to this UL service. This program is self-policing with unnanounced UL Inspection visits.

It should be emphasized that this standard only applies to the panel or enclosure, NOT the complete machine.

To cover machine wiring outside the UL508A panel/enclosure we follow NFPA 79 and NEC.

I cannot stress the savings in headaches at installation and startup that this has saved us. In the past we would have to pick up the tab for a local UL inspector when/if required. This proved costly and frequently delayed equipment commissioning.

Yes indeed we have had some headaches as well as our fair share of GOOD and BAD UL Inspectors. But in the long run it has been well worth it,our customers like it and is another tool that helps our sales force compete against our Non-UL competitors.

The most difficult part of UL508A to comply with correctly and understand are the SCCR ratings that were introduced in 2006.
But there is a wealth of documents on the web covering this subject.

The company I used to work for was a UL508 certified panel shop. We could put a UL sticker on any panel we built, as long as we followed their regulations. They did not come inspect each panel, just samples once every quarter.

But if you follow common sense wiring practices and use the right wire colors, as well as buy UL listed parts, certifying a panel is a snap.

When we get our shop open, we intend to be able to cert our own panels. We've looked into this just a little so far but it seems like the best bet for us.


In our recent experience, we saved ourselves some hassles by having the panels certified before commissioning, obviously because the electrical inspector would not have passed us for operating the conveyor system without the sticker. We were really close to "go-live" when we got the panels tested and labeled.

Thanks for everyone's input.