Step 7 Training

The sit where I work has a few hundred AB processors; PLC5, SLC, MicroLogix, CLX. Our entire division has standardized on AB, and my department has a wealth of talent and experience with diagnostics and programming.
Now, corporate engineering has a pet project, and is bringing in Siemens. I have a department to re-train, including myself.
Those of you with experience on both platforms: how different is Step 7 as compared to RSLogix? I'm hoping my experience programming AB will help, but will it? Should I consider formalized training, or is there a website or other resource I could use to pick up the basics? Thanks in advance.

Search www.4shared.com you can get some basic study material on step7

Not sure where you live... but they (Siemens) have a school in Atlanta GA, I have a few friends that went there and they liked it a lot, but they also told me about all the beer they drink

To understand S7 you need to forget what you know about AB,
Step 7 is a different animal.
Comparing AB to Siemens will make you fill bad .
Step 7 has lot of power but also lot of disadvantage.
You need to take it easy,
I passing this process now.
You will see a lot of thing which will make you "an happy"(crazy)
Some thing you will like.
I am sure you will not like the one who chose Step 7.
Any How I would suggest you to take what they call basic programing.
After the training .Get a unit, play with,when you will have more confidence take what they call "Programing"
Spend some time (lot) on practice.
Then maybe you will like it.

Enjoy

Another issue.
Dont count on the simulator.some functions are not work with.Like SFB4.
Get real unit for training

Thanks to all for the insight. geniusintraining, I like the beer idea the best!

I'm definitely going to push back on corporate for some real training, starting with a basic course. Sounds like we have a lot to learn.

in the US, Siemens offers course geared for experienced AB programmers so they can have smooth transition into S7 world. if you have good local support, you should not have much trouble other than getting used to working around inherent problems with their products, website and documentation.

Step 7 is a different beast. If you want to be able to use Step 7 to it's potential take the formal training.

Remember that a PLC is a PLC and Logic is Logic. You can program a Siemens in a similar way to an AB and not need much additional training. If you are good at programming an AB then you should be able to move to Siemens without trouble. Where you will get into trouble is if you are receiving the PLCs with code pre-written, since it is possible to also program a Siemens PLC very differently from an AB. If you are getting your equipment from Germany, and it is pre-programmed, then you will need a lot of training and, if possible, forget everything you learned about AB. Germans love instruction list programming almost as much as beer. They hate ladderlogic as much as they hate having a fly land in their beer.
Overall, I think you should do a course on Siemens if you can. Also, I think the difficulties of using a Siemens PLC have been exagerated.

Doug_Adam said:

Remember that a PLC is a PLC and Logic is Logic. You can program a Siemens in a similar way to an AB and not need much additional training. If you are good at programming an AB then you should be able to move to Siemens without trouble. Where you will get into trouble is if you are receiving the PLCs with code pre-written, since it is possible to also program a Siemens PLC very differently from an AB. If you are getting your equipment from Germany, and it is pre-programmed, then you will need a lot of training and, if possible, forget everything you learned about AB. Germans love instruction list programming almost as much as beer. They hate ladderlogic as much as they hate having a fly land in their beer.
Overall, I think you should do a course on Siemens if you can. Also, I think the difficulties of using a Siemens PLC have been exagerated.

Click to expand...

Very good, I have just about every type of major PLC (working on Omron) and they are all the same.... even Siemens

I have a ton of German wrote programs, I LOVE working on them and trouble shooting them, I learn more and more every time I do, everyone has their own style of programming, my goal is to take the best of all and call it my own.

I don't think WwIDGIEwW will have any issues... not as long as plctalk.net is around

"Remember that a PLC is a PLC and Logic is Logic."
That true.
The way to get it going thru hills and mountains with Siemens.Or straight ahead with the others.
To write and debug FB for Siemens take twice then Omron.

It is the Step& that has a steep learning curve

It is a good idea to take the class and take notes on all the procedures you need to do because Step7 is not intuitive or made easy to use.

I recommend that your lower skilled programmer program in ladder or LAD. Your programmers with higher skills should learn STL or SCL to program blocks and function that the lower skilled programmers will use.

You will find that the S7 PLC does have its advantages but it takes a very skilled programmer to take advantage of them.

The control logix and S7 have different advantages and disadvantages. The Control logix is better at communication, is easier to use, and has a wider choice of PID options. The S7 is better at doing nitty gritty math and executing state machines efficiently.

You will be swearing at Siemens and the people that forced you to use it until you get familiar with it and that will take at least a month.

Fortunately there are a lot of S7 programmers here that can help you get over the hurdles.

I would like to know what this project is and why the decision was made to use a S7 instead a Control Logix.

I aggree with everyone else about the steep learning curve of STEP7. It is getting past the initial hurdle that is the worst. After that it gets easier, if not smooth sailing.
I also aggree with that you can program Ladder in STEP7 that is very similar to Ladder in AB.

ArikBY said:

Dont count on the simulator.some functions are not work with.Like SFB4.

Click to expand...

Actually, PLCSIM is quite good. The issue with the IEC timers is for an old version and was fixed with a hotfix. The only remaining issue I have with PLCSIM is that you cannot simulate comms to other PLCs.
PLCSIM is worth the cost. STEP7 PRO is a better deal than STEP7 BASIS.

I have used both AB and Step7 over the last few years and I would agree with other that Step7 is going to be a big transistion.

Let me try and qualify that (I am assuming that you are talking S7-3/400, S7-200 is quite a different animal):

Basic level ladder programming in S7 is quite similar to AB.

Where it gets complicated is that once you go from Ladder to Statement List S7 gets far more complicated, powerfull yes, but not as easy to follow if you have only worked with AB before.

Also the idea of re-using functions is central to the S7 concept, and dosnt really have an equivilent in AB. You will need to get to grips with this.

Data blocks are another area of difference, the AB data tables are similar, but S7 datablocks are potentially more flexible, but introduce a new level of complixity.

Documentation:

S7 documention is slowly getting better, but it is still quite hard to find what you are looking for, and many of the examples are to my mind over complex.

I assume that outside people will be writing your software, and if these people are S7 proficent then you will exposed to all differences straight away.

So you will need training

The programming enviroment causes some problems, a clean install under XP isnt usually a problem, but upgrades etc have been known to cause problems.

I hope your local support is good!

Link to some training material on the siemens website: http://www.automation.siemens.com/fea/html_76/down_module.htm