New Here And Have Question!!

justinivey

Member
J
Join Date
Dec 2009
Location
Alabama
Posts
13
Hey Guys,

I'm new here but have used these forums and others to help with plc problems I've had. First let me say that I'm no expert at PLC's. I'm just a maintenance tech with a good understanding of them. I have built and programmed alot of machines. Most of them were fixtures to verify presence and absence of parts. The latest on I did was with an cognex camera.

I work for a tier 1 supplier for Honda. We do plastic injection molding. The problem is the company will buy whatever is on sell that week. We have AB, Idec, Omron and Siemens PLC's on our fixtures. Every HMI ever made. The vision we have is Cognex and Banner. We have every make of sensor ever made.;)

I recently ran into a problem where somehow a panelview 550's screen got cracked. Of course nobody knows how it happenned. I found out that it uses DH485 protocal and I couldn't use my usb to serial that I have on my laptop. So I get the IT guy to install the software on the desktop with a real serial port. Still no luck, after researching, I find that the computer is running XP SP3;););) So I will have to wait till monday to get the IT guy to install it on another computer.

My question is why did the company that manufactured this fixture use a panelview with this type protocal. Its only connected to a Micrologix 1200. What is the advantage or why use DH485. Is this for a network?
 
The simple answer to your question is yes. DH485 allows for network connection. More then two devices on the network.
One advantage would be to connect to both devices at the same time to monitor the PLC as you interact with the HMI.

There is a work around for SP3 and the 1747-PIC/AIC+ driver. See links below

http://forums.rockwellautomation.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Activations/message-id/114

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showpost.php?p=317407&postcount=9

But as mentioned above the 1747-UIC is your best solution. Maybe GIT is having a Christmas sale. See post #3
 
Last edited:
Mark- said:
Hello,

> My question is why did the company that manufactured this fixture use a panelview with this type protocal.

Maybe it was on sale. :ROFLMAO:

Cheers,

Mark
http://www.peakhmi.com/
Click to expand...


I believe your right. It puzzles me how they will spend 2X as much money in the end to save a few dollars in the beginning. It makes it very frustrating for us maintenance techs. It's hard to master your surroundings when you have every make and model of everything. It's also the reason we don't have any back up inventory on hand to replace things that fail.
 
Mickey said:
The simple answer to your question is yes. DH485 allows for network connection. More then two devices on the network.
One advantage would be to connect to both devices at the same time to monitor the PLC as you interact with the HMI.

There is a work around for SP3 and the 1747-PIC/AIC+ driver. See links below

http://forums.rockwellautomation.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Activations/message-id/114

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showpost.php?p=317407&postcount=9

But as mentioned above the 1747-UIC is your best solution. Maybe GIT is having a Christmas sale. See post #3
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. I will turn this info over to the IT guy.
 
If the PanelView 550 has firmware version 3.x or later, you can use an ATA type PCMCIA memory card to upload and download applications. If you can see the screen at all, then you may be able to navigate the menus and use the memory card.

I use CompactFlash cards formatted for FAT16 and inserted in a Type II carrier and they work fine. Version 3 firmware was released over a decade ago, so unless the terminal is very old this method will work.

The usual reason for using DH485 protocol on a PanelView when it's connected to a MicroLogix is that you can put a 1761-NET-AIC isolator between them and then connect your PC, the PanelView, and the controller in a little DH485 network so you can troubleshoot while the PanelView is doing its job.

Data Highway 485 is slowly going the way of the dinosaurs but users expect 20+ years of backwards compatibility out of A-B, so products like the PV550 with DH485 continue to be manufactured and used.

The quick approach for you is to use the SP2 .sys file trick, but if your PCs are locked down for application installation they're probably locked down for SYS file changes too.
 
My 2 cents

An even easier way to upload/download to any standard PanelView is a CompactFlash card and a PCMCIA adapter.

You can buy a PCMCIA memory card from AB, but they want about $250 for a 128Mb card (!).

The CF card needs to be 256Mb or below (if memory serves), and formatted FAT16. CF adapters were available at TigerDirect for about $5. I bought 3 off E-bay for $1.49 each.

Small CF cards are harder to find these days, umless you've got a well-stocked junk drawer, or try E-bay.

They are as fast as Ethernet for uploads/downloads.

If your screen is completely pooched, though, seeing the menu could be a problem.

We have had the 1747-UIC in a couple of times over the last 2 years, and the local AB rep could never get them to work on all the DH-485 stuff we have in house. Considering the price, I expected Rockwell to come up with a more reliable solution.

If you buy one, make sure you try it on a sampling of your equipment before you sign off. I believe we had problems with the big PV900/PV1000/PV1200 series. The adapter just wouldn't communicate with them. The rep gave up after 45 min on the phone with Tech support.

Then again, maybe they just want us to scrap our DH485 stuff...
 
We have AB, Idec, Omron and Siemens PLC's on our fixtures. Every HMI ever made. The vision we have is Cognex and Banner. We have every make of sensor ever made.
Click to expand...
Having a standard brand and model for every device in a plant is a nice goal, but in my experience it is not usually achieved. The problem is that even if you start out that way, as things are replaced, the communications protocols have changed, software has been upgraded, PLC and Personal Computer models become obsolete. In many cases, the machine that the managers wanted to buy was only available from a certain vendor that only uses XYZ brand of programmable controllers. In other cases, management and purchasing are not knowledgable enough to know that it makes any difference in maintainability as to which brand of controller, HMI, and sensors is used.

Product improvement is part of the reason for continual equipment changes, and the remainder is simply due to sales and marketing efforts by the various vendors. If they don't keep coming out with new, improved versions that you just gotta have, they soon loose market share and fall off the edge.

So accept that this is the way things are, and now how can you work around it? You could suggest that an Equipment Standardization team be formed to make lists of the equipment that works best for the plant, and have a procedure to order those items where possible. Of course they may put YOU in charge of it (usually the messenger is the one that gets put on the hot seat). Then your headaches will be multiplied - then you have to decide what really is the best stuff. Good luck!!
 
Last edited:
Ken Roach said:
If the PanelView 550 has firmware version 3.x or later, you can use an ATA type PCMCIA memory card to upload and download applications. If you can see the screen at all, then you may be able to navigate the menus and use the memory card.

I use CompactFlash cards formatted for FAT16 and inserted in a Type II carrier and they work fine. Version 3 firmware was released over a decade ago, so unless the terminal is very old this method will work.

The usual reason for using DH485 protocol on a PanelView when it's connected to a MicroLogix is that you can put a 1761-NET-AIC isolator between them and then connect your PC, the PanelView, and the controller in a little DH485 network so you can troubleshoot while the PanelView is doing its job.

Data Highway 485 is slowly going the way of the dinosaurs but users expect 20+ years of backwards compatibility out of A-B, so products like the PV550 with DH485 continue to be manufactured and used.

The quick approach for you is to use the SP2 .sys file trick, but if your PCs are locked down for application installation they're probably locked down for SYS file changes too.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Ken.

The screen is damaged pretty badly. There are buttons that are unable to be pressed like to put the machine back into auto after it has a fault. I'm having to do this by toggling the bit in the rslogix program. I'm not sure which firmware the PV has but it does have a slot for a memory card. I'm going to talk to the IT guy and see what he wants to do. I'm good minded to tell them to purchase the 1747-UIC or call in a programmer to get if fixed.:)
 
Lancie1 said:
Having a standard brand and model for every device in a plant is a nice goal, but in my experience it is not usually achieved. The problem is that even if you start out that way, as things are replaced, the communications protocols have changed, software has been upgraded, PLC and Personal Computer models become obsolete. In many cases, the machine that the managers wanted to buy was only available from a certain vendor that only uses XYZ brand of programmable controllers. In other cases, management and purchasing are not knowledgable enough to know that it makes any difference in maintainability as to which brand of controller, HMI, and sensors is used.

Product improvement is part of the reason for continual equipment changes, and the remainder is simply due to sales and marketing efforts by the various vendors. If they don't keep coming out with new, improved versions that you just gotta have, they soon loose market share and fall off the edge.

So accept that this is the way things are, and now how can you work around it? You could suggest that an Equipment Standardization team be formed to make lists of the equipment that works best for the plant, and have a procedure to order those items where possible. Of course they may put YOU in charge of it (usually the messenger is the one that gets put on the hot seat). Then your headaches will be multiplied - then you have to decide what really is the best stuff. Good luck!!
Click to expand...


Yes it's very frustrating. I have told them many times that we need to standardize but it goes in one ear and out the other. The fixtures that these processors are on are not very complicated. Most can be programmed using a smart relay instead of a PLC. They are basically just, assembly part, place part in nest, press opto touch, the machine checks for components present, then pass or fail. Some of the machines have Dukane sonic welders and others have heat stakes. It' not like we need the biggest fastest plc on the market. I'm most familiar with AB and I told them to just put AB in all of them. They called me at home and told me about the cracked screen and wanted to know if i could fix it. I told them AB was my bread and butter. Then I ran into this DH485 thing....o_O This has made me look like I don't know what I'm doing.
 
Guys I have another quick question. Since it the screen that's cracked and I don't have the 1747-UIC or a computer without windows XP SP3, could I take the boards out of the one with cracked screen and put in the new one? Would this be feasable?
 

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