Looking for new options in PLC Brands

I'm looking for opinions for new options as far as PLC brands

As many of you know, I work primarily with AB PLCs. But the Micrologix shortage along with some disagreements my local distributor has with The Automation Store has left me virtually unable to purchase AB PLCs. The shortage is starting to ease but I think it has be a huge eye opener to many of us to not only have alternate suppliers but also alternate products. I think the discrepancies between my distributor and myself will be reconciled, but we work on different time lines and I can't afford any delays in any of my projects.

The big key is to accomplish this without my customers frowning. Many will not care, but others would have concerns about spare parts and software cost. So component cost and software cost will be important. In fact I will probably include the cost of the software into my project, provide a copy up front, and add some hours in to do a quick primer for the maintenance staff of how to use the software so they can begin familiarizing themselves with the new brand.

The main brands that come to my mind are Automation Direct, Mitsubishi, Omron, and Siemens. Automation Direct has the advantage of quick availability to everyone in the US, but lacks local support. Mitsubishi and Omron have the same problem as they have the same distributor. Not a lot of motivation for them to sell either one of them. I'm not sure that the local Siemens distributor even knows that they sell PLCs. So I will be on my own to be knowledgeable enough to support my customers needs.

I don't want this turned into an AB bashing session. I have products on The Automation Store that are competing products with my distributor and they seem to have concerns with this. While I hope they find that our competing products are insignificant compared to the business we do together, they have that right to refuse to sell to me.

Tim

Ok so I just got a phone call and was told I left out the CoDeSys line. I've played with it a little bit. Any thoughts on it?

I really like Siemens. I started using the S7-300 and S7-200 in 1999. There is a learning curve in going from AB to Step7 but I think it was worth it. It's now my preferred platform. The tech support from Siemens has been great - I'd rank them #1 over AB and GE. It's all a personal decision, and this is just my opinion. Though I'm sure you see tons of posts on this forum about Siemens so I'm not alone.

As far as HMI programming goes, the WinCC Flexible software is awesome. It's my favorite to use over AB, GE, Exor, Maple, etc.

Your statement about Siemens is correct. I never was able to track down someone to sell me a s200 just to learn on. The web site will not get you to a knowledgeable distributor.
I went to ebay and got what I needed for my purposes.
Purchasing siemens PLCs for a customer project in the Erie, PA area would be a problem.
End of rant.

Controlmicrosystems makes a good product, with excellent support.

http://www.controlmicrosystems.com/

For me the best are PLCs where CoDeSys runs on it. They are much faster, cheaper and better to program than Siemens. On Bosch Rexroth, Wago, Moeller, Elau, Festo and so on runs CoDeSys. So the same CoDeSys programm runs on all of this hardware brands. www.3s-software.com I never would like to program a Siemens again!!!

Tim,

To sound completely bias...have you thought outside of the shoe box or rack?

Have you considered Entertron?

1. purchase price of programming software is $0

2. controllers use same software

3. availability of parts - stock to 3 weeks ARO.

Some standard offerings with unique capablities.

For instance, with a small amount of digital I/O (8/6) and a Smart-PAK PLUS you can use the analog only expansion board, and have it configured for various types of analog. A typical PLC would require different modules for each type of analog. This would be one board (for analog, two boards total).

The SK1600-RIC offers 8 amp form C relay outputs

The Elite-2000 offers high current solid state with individually fused outputs.

Information on the products can be viewed through the following link:

http://www.eternity-sales.com/Entertron/entertron.htm

When it comes to change, most will resist to the point that they are familar with what they have, worts and all. If there is no option but to change, and your customers are aware, then you will want to present them with the best possible solution. Whether that is Entertron, Siemens, AD, ABB, etc...you need all the information in order to make the best decision.

The best solution will depend on what your needs are and what product can best meet those needs.

If there is anything additional you need, or questions, feel free to email me through the link below.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

Don't forget Beckhoff, which also uses Codesys.

You probably won't find local Beckhoff support but IME the national Beckhoff support is really excellent. The products are very pleasantly priced as well.

rudl said:

For me the best are PLCs where CoDeSys runs on it. They are much faster, cheaper and better to program than Siemens. On Bosch Rexroth, Wago, Moeller, Elau, Festo and so on runs CoDeSys. So the same CoDeSys programm runs on all of this hardware brands. www.3s-software.com I never would like to program a Siemens again!!!

Click to expand...

So is this pretty much the official software for CoDeSys or are there various version?

Steven, I'll probably email you personally for some further details.

TWControls said:

So is this pretty much the official software for CoDeSys or are there various version?

Steven, I'll probably email you personally for some further details.

Click to expand...

Horner makes a bunch of small affordale PLC/HMI combos and you can add remote I/O (expansion cards0to all of them.
Starting price of the XLe with onboard I/O is around 500.00
They offer all the good stuff as well.
HSC, analog I/O, pWM, PIDs, etc.

If you were using the Micrologix, a great choice available right now from Siemens is the new S7-1200; roughly 40% the price of the Micrologix, even less than the Automation Direct now. It's an eventual long-term replacement for the S7-200s, but it's actually the vanguard of a redesign of all of their PLC upgrades. They have revamped the programming software and it is bundled with the programming for their new line of Basic HMIs so you can program the HMIs and the PLC at the same time, even by drag-and-drop of ladder elements onto the HMI screen as a way to set up tags. I love it. Siemens is running a promotion targeting the A-B delivery problems right now and you can get great bundled "starter kits" that get you essentially free software and programming cables.

Be aware, Siemens has several "classes" of distribution because they sell all kinds of different products. So there are a lot of "Siemens distributors" that sell only construction based products, i.e. breakers, panelboards, transformers, maybe some NEMA motor controls etc., but are not allowed to sell PLCs. What you need to find out from your local Siemens office is the name of what are called the "Siemens Technology Centers" or STCs for your area. They will have the exclusive rights to sell PLCs, in exchange for having technical support and training available.

PS: Based on your profile, your local STC is Wesco in Roanoke. (540)362-8404

jraef said:

If you were using the Micrologix, a great choice available right now from Siemens is the new S7-1200; roughly 40% the price of the Micrologix, even less than the Automation Direct now. It's an eventual long-term replacement for the S7-200s, but it's actually the vanguard of a redesign of all of their PLC upgrades. They have revamped the programming software and it is bundled with the programming for their new line of Basic HMIs so you can program the HMIs and the PLC at the same time, even by drag-and-drop of ladder elements onto the HMI screen as a way to set up tags. I love it. Siemens is running a promotion targeting the A-B delivery problems right now and you can get great bundled "starter kits" that get you essentially free software and programming cables.

Be aware, Siemens has several "classes" of distribution because they sell all kinds of different products. So there are a lot of "Siemens distributors" that sell only construction based products, i.e. breakers, panelboards, transformers, maybe some NEMA motor controls etc., but are not allowed to sell PLCs. What you need to find out from your local Siemens office is the name of what are called the "Siemens Technology Centers" or STCs for your area. They will have the exclusive rights to sell PLCs, in exchange for having technical support and training available.

PS: Based on your profile, your local STC is Wesco in Roanoke. (540)362-8404

Click to expand...

Good info Jraef. I think I'll contact them for some more information

Hi for what its worth i had siemens give me a demo of the S7-1200 and i will be using it for smaller projects. Small, cheap and expandable. I understand a big firmware release is due towards the end of the year to support profinet remote io and other features

I work for a distributor for Both Bosch Rexroth Controls (which runs CoDeSys) and Phoenix Contact which use PCWorx so I am biased but you are out of my territory for both so I would not gain or suffer from your decisions anyway.

Regarding CoDeSys based products, each manufacturer will have their own "flavor" of CoDeSys software that they customize to their own hardware. They also may license different parts of CoDeSys to include in their branded software package for instance the Motion Libraries or Engineering Project Tools. They also may have significant numbers of manufacturer specific libraries to make their systems work.

In theory, all of this functionality (except the libraries) is transfered in something called a "target file" which is kind of like a printer driver in that it lets the software know about the hardware. That said, each manufacturer does not have the same hardware so a Bosch Rexroth program will not necessarily run on a Moeller PLC but the raw logic of the program will function. If there are no hardware specific functions in a function block it can be moved from platform to platform without too much hassle. I believe most CoDeSys PLC's run compiled code so they are generally faster than PLC which run interpreted code (I believe Micrologix is interpreted but I'm not sure).

We were very skeptical when we started using the Phoenix Contact ILC controllers. The low end controllers (ILC 130/150/170) program in PCWorx Express which is free software and while it is IEC61131 it is not CoDeSys. They have proven to be quite capable little controllers which we have used in places we could have used MicroLogix controllers. Like the Siemens distribution schizophrenia mentioned above, Phoenix contact will have the same issue as many distributors are just in it to sell terminal blocks and won't even know that Phoenix Contact sells PLC's and Industrial PC's etc. If interested you should call Phoenix directly and ask them who the "Automation" distributor is in your area.

Good Luck

cjd1965 said:

Hi for what its worth i had siemens give me a demo of the S7-1200 and i will be using it for smaller projects. Small, cheap and expandable. I understand a big firmware release is due towards the end of the year to support profinet remote io and other features

Click to expand...

Thank you cjd1965. Am I understanding correctly that the S7 1200 is limited to 3 high speed inputs?