Simatic S5 EProm transfer to new CPU

ry_fern · Sep 9, 2011

Hi guys,

good day!

I am currently troubleshooting an S5 rack with a faulty CPU. The CPU PN is 6ES5-943-7UB11. It also has an EPROM.

The said CPU runs for some time and then faults. There is no fix time interval. Sometimes, it faults after a week, a day or even a month. The plant personnel said they just perform an overall reset whenever the fault happens.

The plant also has a similar spare of CPU. Exactly the same part number.

My question is, can i transfer the Old EPROM and use it to with the new CPU? If possible, are there any steps suggested to ensure safe operation? I don't have the backup of the program.

Forgive my ignorance with Step 5.

Thank you. Every idea is very much appreciated.

ojz0r · Sep 9, 2011

If its the same model cpu and the same eprom they usually use then try with the new cpu.

rcflyer91 · Sep 9, 2011

S5 Software and cable

I have one of these still kicking in my facility. We are required to keep redundant copies of all programs in our PLCs and HMIs. Softwaretoolbox.com sells the S5 software, and you can buy as PC to TTY cable for programming the S5 on Ebay.

rcflyer91 · Sep 9, 2011

Caution

Be sure to research the process for writing the program from the EPROM to the PLC.

I do believe the process for writing the program from the PLC to the EPROM is very similar to writing the program from the EPROM to the PLC. You wouldn't want to write an empty PLC program to your EPROM.

Good Luck.

KalleOlsen · Sep 9, 2011

ALARM!
You should be careful about this, and do a backup of the CPU before you swap. There might be added blocks to the CPU (RAM) in addition to what's stored in the EPROM.

Kalle

Liam Moran · Sep 15, 2011

In the initial post you say that the plant personnel do an overall reset every time the CPU faults. This wipes the Ram memory in the CPU. On the next power up the data on the EPROM is then uploaded into the CPU ram and the CPU may have to be manually started using the run-stop switch. If this is the case then exchanging the CPU should not be a problem as you have all your Program Blocks, Organisation Function and Data blocks on the EPROM.

It would be a good idea of course, to take a backup of the working program from the PLC while it is running, just in case.

ry_fern · Sep 15, 2011

Follow up question

Thank you very much for the replies. I really got good information from you guys!

I would like to add something up.

I performed an upload of the program. After upload, I opened the project and got some errors or warnings (i'm not sure) like "SEGMENT UNTRANSLATABLE" and "PREHEADER DOES NOT EXIST". Can someone explain what they mean?

Again, thank you.

Liam Moran · Sep 15, 2011

The message "SEGMENT UNTRANSLATABLE" refers to the fact that the segment cannot be displayed in the format you have selected. This occurs when the segment was written using STL(boolean) or CSF (logic blocks) formats and you have selected to display in LAD. It does not mean that anything is wrong with the program. If you are using Simatic S5 you can change the format using Ctrl or Shft + F5 depending on your keyboard.
"PREHEADER DOES NOT EXIST" is displayed because you have uploaded the program from the PLC which does not store the Function Block preheaders.
If you just are archiving the program you do not need to be concerned about either message.

ry_fern · Sep 15, 2011

Another follow up question

Hi again,

I would like to do another follow up question.

During the time I uploaded the program in the CPU, I remember several files were set like the .seq, .ini, .px, .s5d files and others. I think, there are 8 of them.

Why does it happen after upload, I only got three of them namely the .seq, .ini, and .s5d. I already looked at the Step5 directory but I cannot find the other files.

Does it mean not all files were uploaded or it just don't exist in the CPU? Did I miss something in the upload config?

@Liam Moran

Thank you for your wonderful reply.

Despite the messages I got, does it mean I got a valid backup of the current program in the CPU and it can be downloaded with another CPU?

Thank you very much.

bce123 · Sep 15, 2011

wow, cant be much help here but it brings back memories. the last time I worked on an old s5 was to do backups for y2k you know the end of the world as we know it. backed the thing up and set the plc date to 1900 I think figured it might take a wile for it to roll around to 2000 again! LOL replaced the thing in 2001 with think n do and ethernet I/O havent had a problem with it since!

Liam Moran · Sep 16, 2011

Here is a screenshot showing a folder with siemens s5 project files.
The actual PLC code file is the one with the .S5D extension.
.INI files are setup files for project and printers etc.
.SEQ files are files which contain symbol databases for documentation.

Liam Moran · Sep 16, 2011

You can do a comparison online to compare all the blocks in the PLC.
The file you really need is the file with the .S5D extension, this is the only file containing data that is stored in the PLC

ry_fern · Sep 16, 2011

Is this okay?

Hi guys,

I am thinking of this procedure to switch the 2 CPUs.

without using the EPROM

1. Create backup of the program.
2. Remove old and faulty CPU.
3. Install the new CPU.
4. Perform an overall reset with the new installed cpu.
5. download the program. I believe the CPU ROM is enough for the program.
6. Switch to run mode.

or

Using the EPROM

1-4 same step.
5. Install the EPROM.
6. PLC shall boot using the EPROM and transfer the program to its RAM.

Kindly object if any of my step is faulty. I apologize for my ignorance with S5, I just don't have much confidence in it. This is my first encounter with it.

Thanks for the informations especially to Liam Moran.

Liam Moran · Sep 18, 2011

You have everything covered there.
Just do not insert or remove the EPROM under power.
I have to confess that it is a number of years since I did this.
As for your confidence in S5, I did 7 installations in 1989 using
Simatic S5115U PLC's, all are still running.
I learned a lot in the 80's about PLC's and the Siemens 115 still ranks as my Favourite PLC platform,
But only for Software I did myself. It is not generally nice to work on PLC programs done by others,
but I suppose you could say the same of any PLC system.

Simatic S5 EProm transfer to new CPU

ry_fern

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