Drive selection

hey guys i m bit new to this field,
my costumer requirement is comlicated i m not able to select proper drive for him can you please help me select.

application goes like this:
1: initially drive start on start command and accelerate to 85% of freq (42.5 Hz) run at the that frequency for 180minutes continuous.
2: after that it goes to 90 % (45 Hz).
3: at that time an external DI will reset the drive to 85% and step 1. repeat
4. if external input DI fails to appear the drive keeps running at 90% for 10 minutes then automatically reset to 85% and continue to step 1.

this is a thread winding application.
the drive suggested by firm was Power Flex 40p i studied that well and it fails to do this function.

** the drive should be AB make only.

They do have two requirements. I had completed the first one but the second one above is not possible with PF40P. attaching the program for the first one if you wish to see it. i had declared to my company that PF-40P is not going to comply with the customer requirement and i m searching for the suitable drive for above application.
thanks in advance
saiyed mufish j

What is the kw rating of the drive?
Is there a PLC to control the drive?
You can easily achieve this by using a Movitrac 07B by SEW Eurodrive even with out a PLC.
It comes with 5 digital inputs and you can write a simple program in the drive to suit your application. I can help you to write the program if you are interested.

Ranjith said:

What is the kw rating of the drive?
Is there a PLC to control the drive?
You can easily achieve this by using a Movitrac 07B by SEW Eurodrive even with out a PLC.
It comes with 5 digital inputs and you can write a simple program in the drive to suit your application. I can help you to write the program if you are interested.

Click to expand...

Ranjith ji,
The motor specification is 3 phase 7.5 HP / 720 RPM / 12 Amps induction motor.
supply available is 415 V +/- 15 % , 50 Hz +/- 2 % , O/P voltage should be 0 to 415 V, 0 to 100 % variable, O/P freq 0-50 Hz, 0 to 100 % variable , type : constant Torque / Heavy Duty ( 150 % over load for 1 minutes )

exact application is transverse & spinning machine upper godet.

problem is that i have to learn my self for this and no support from office i m studying my self. and one more thing i am working for recognized system integrator of rockwell so we only prefer rockwell we cant use other firms drives. then also ill study it and try to find the suitable replacement.

any way thank you very much for your support. ill try to do program side by my self if i stuck any where ill ask you.

Saiyed.mufish said:

the drive suggested by firm was Power Flex 40p i studied that well and it fails to do this function.

Click to expand...

I just had a look at the PF40P manual, and although its logic capabilities are limited, it should be able to perform that sequence.

Does it 'fail' because of the timer limits? The timer can only count to 9999 (166 minutes 39 seconds), but you could simply make the next step run at the same frequency for an additional 801 seconds to get to your 180 minutes.

Even with this simple application, I would still throw a PLC at it, but that's just me...



-Eric

Eric Nelson said:

I just had a look at the PF40P manual, and although its logic capabilities are limited, it should be able to perform that sequence.

Does it 'fail' because of the timer limits? The timer can only count to 9999 (166 minutes 39 seconds), but you could simply make the next step run at the same frequency for an additional 801 seconds to get to your 180 minutes.

Even with this simple application, I would still throw a PLC at it, but that's just me...



-Eric

Click to expand...

Eric sir,
i had tried it too, we can use timer for 9999 sec completely agree, no doubt about it. But while programming the timer will only start with one of the four DI available, attaching the image regarding it even you can refer the program sent above, the timer comes in B026 as basic display group and is activated by one of advance group A051-054, which are digital input. thinking deep in we can use step logic timer 0-7 in advance group as A150-157, each with 600 sec = 10 minutes.

its not possible in my application as, drive start command is given by HMI connected through DSI port and input arises when the drive reaches 90%.no other input available through field.

My apologies i failed to mention the transition from 85% to 90 % 2.5 Hz should be done in in 360 minutes which halt this try of increasing time by timer. 166 minutes + (10 * 8 timer ) = 246 minutes( MAX Available)that not enough.

Ya about the throwing PLC, i must say i m Sales & service executive. in this case i can not try that cause this is a big fish more than 1000 drives order. i may lose chance to sell drive too. i do have some competitors too, i have to be fast with AB drive to be in the competition. tough world here. and i m stuck on this PF 40P cause my local Rockwell engineer told me to do so. ( really a nut head )
any way i m great full to you for your advice. thank you very much

Saiyed.mufish said:

drive start command is given by HMI connected through DSI port and input arises when the drive reaches 90%.no other input available through field.

Click to expand...

Maybe one of the outputs could be set to '2' (motor running), and this output could be wired back to one of the inputs to start the timer.

Saiyed.mufish said:

My apologies i failed to mention the transition from 85% to 90 % 2.5 Hz should be done in in 360 minutes which halt this try of increasing time by timer. 166 minutes + (10 * 8 timer ) = 246 minutes( MAX Available)that not enough.

Click to expand...

I have not experimented with any of the logic programming, but perhaps you could set a timer to, say, 120 minutes, and use one of the counters to count when the timer has cycled 3 times (360 minutes)?

I'm just offering some suggestions in hopes that you can somehow use this drive. It sounds like you have really tried to make the drive work in this application. Unfortunately, it was not designed to handle much more than simple logic. I'm actually impressed that it even HAS logic capabilities. After all, it's supposed to be a VFD, not a PLC...

Perhaps you could add a little Pico controller to handle the logic?...



-Eric

Before a Pico, I would look at using the HMI to script the speed signals the DSI commands, if that would still comply with the customer requirement,
If not, I believe that A/B has a new line of low cost architecture drives that should be able to achieve that logic strictly in the drive, OR, look at the Micro8x0, (or other Micrologix1x00) with DSI port support to keep the HMI out of the drive control loop.

Eric Nelson said:

Maybe one of the outputs could be set to '2' (motor running), and this output could be wired back to one of the inputs to start the timer.

I have not experimented with any of the logic programming, but perhaps you could set a timer to, say, 120 minutes, and use one of the counters to count when the timer has cycled 3 times (360 minutes)?

I'm just offering some suggestions in hopes that you can somehow use this drive. It sounds like you have really tried to make the drive work in this application. Unfortunately, it was not designed to handle much more than simple logic. I'm actually impressed that it even HAS logic capabilities. After all, it's supposed to be a VFD, not a PLC...

Perhaps you could add a little Pico controller to handle the logic?...



-Eric

Click to expand...

Eric sir,
i m attaching the image of the manual, i thought about that but i don't think its possible in this drive. you will surely understand the fundamental which i m talking about.
i do thing i have to select another drive for this application.

OkiePC said:

Before a Pico, I would look at using the HMI to script the speed signals the DSI commands, if that would still comply with the customer requirement,
If not, I believe that A/B has a new line of low cost architecture drives that should be able to achieve that logic strictly in the drive, OR, look at the Micro8x0, (or other Micrologix1x00) with DSI port support to keep the HMI out of the drive control loop.

Click to expand...

communication is not a bar for me i had connected an extra card with Ethernet support, so DSI is not issue its there i m using a simple HMI for programming and viewing purpose..
main problem is that i am not able to find a drive suitable for this application, if you have any thing in mind please please let me know ill work on it and revert back.
the order is so big that the customer wont but 1000 processor with 1000 driver it will add to this expenses. thanks for your support i do appreciate it.

I know you said that you are an AB integrator but, just for kicks, take a look at how easily this could be done with an ABB ACS355 drive using sequential and timer operations.

It really does make a difference which brand affiliations we choose. They all have shortcomings and strengths and, to force a single brand into every application, is awkward and often unneccessarily expensive, in both time and money.

DickDV said:

I know you said that you are an AB integrator but, just for kicks, take a look at how easily this could be done with an ABB ACS355 drive using sequential and timer operations.

It really does make a difference which brand affiliations we choose. They all have shortcomings and strengths and, to force a single brand into every application, is awkward and often unneccessarily expensive, in both time and money.

Click to expand...

DickDv sir,
i m kind of hand cuff with this so just simply no for this options.
i even tried to explain and let them understand the problem but they refused so either i had to stuck with AB or just leave the customer.
and frankly i m not the quitter type of person so ill fight for it, there must be some thing in this whole range of drives which i can use. i m now aiming to study pF 753 series today let see what it offers..
any was thanks...