Red Lion/Crimson and Re-Using Displays

jtheis

Member
J
Join Date
Dec 2005
Location
Ohio
Posts
5
I am using a Red Lion G310 display with the latest version of Crimson 3.0. I would like to use one display to represent multiple zones being controlled. Each zone has an AB Micrologix for its controller. Rather than making multiple duplicate screens, I want to replace the data source for the items on the screen on the fly. If you're familiar with how Parameter files work in AB FactoryTalk View Studio, that's what I'm trying to replicate. I thought I could do the following for the data source for display.Tag1:

switch (internal.zone)
{
case 1:
return zone1.Tag1;
break;

case 2:
return zone2.Tag1;
break;

case 3:
return zone3.Tag1;
break;

etc...
}

This works if all of the PLCs are enabled and communicating. If any of the PLCs are disabled or not communicating the code doesn't execute. There is no "run anyway" when using complex code as a data source.

Has anyone ever tried this? Is there a best practice way to do this other than copying every screen x times for the x zones of control?
 
jtheis said:
I am using a Red Lion G310 display with the latest version of Crimson 3.0. I would like to use one display to represent multiple zones being controlled. Each zone has an AB Micrologix for its controller. Rather than making multiple duplicate screens, I want to replace the data source for the items on the screen on the fly. If you're familiar with how Parameter files work in AB FactoryTalk View Studio, that's what I'm trying to replicate. I thought I could do the following for the data source for display.Tag1:

switch (internal.zone)
{
case 1:
return zone1.Tag1;
break;

case 2:
return zone2.Tag1;
break;

case 3:
return zone3.Tag1;
break;

etc...
}

This works if all of the PLCs are enabled and communicating. If any of the PLCs are disabled or not communicating the code doesn't execute. There is no "run anyway" when using complex code as a data source.

Has anyone ever tried this? Is there a best practice way to do this other than copying every screen x times for the x zones of control?
Click to expand...

If everything is truly the same, I would create the page intending to combine everything on the page as a widget. Once you do that you can bind the widget to a folder that you have set up for each zone.

You still end up with multiple pages, but if you decide that you need to change something, you can change it in the widget for Zone 1, delete the widget on the additional pages and then paste the widget from Zone 1 and re-bind.
 
Personally, unless there are dozens and dozens of tags per page or lots of pages, I would just duplicate the pages, then change the addresses for each one. Unlike the PV+, the G3 can change pages and paint the screen with fresh data faster than you can hit the goto page buttons.

To make your existing set up work when the data source is unavailable, you may want to:
1) put your code in a program rather than complex code in the tag
2) call the program as the tag source
3) on the program properties tab, check the tickbox for "Run Anyway"

Your program will have to be edited to return a value, and then can be dragged to the tag data source.
 
Last edited:
OkiePC said:
Personally, unless there are dozens and dozens of tags per page or lots of pages, I would just duplicate the pages, then change the addresses for each one. Unlike the PV+, the G3 can change pages and paint the screen with fresh data faster than you can hit the goto page buttons.

To make your existing set up work when the data source is unavailable, you may want to:
1) put your code in a program rather than complex code in the tag
2) call the program as the tag source
3) on the program properties tab, check the tickbox for "Run Anyway"
Click to expand...


I agree with your comment about simply making multiple pages and changing tags, but folks seem to want some way to make it more complicated, and I was trying to give the least complicated way to make it more complicated...
 
I am still lost with widgets, but the editor is so robust and efficient in Crimson, I really don't think I am missing much. One day, I will sit down and go through Jeff Kiper's widget tutorial again and try to put it in practice so I can understand the benefits better.
 
OkiePC said:
I am still lost with widgets, but the editor is so robust and efficient in Crimson, I really don't think I am missing much. One day, I will sit down and go through Jeff Kiper's widget tutorial again and try to put it in practice so I can understand the benefits better.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I use widgets 20 - 50 times in every project. I think they are fantastic and are great time savers!

Learn them, you will love them too.
 
JHarbin:
I do like the widgets and I see their value. However, I have so many pages and tags (when they're multiplied for each zone) that I exceed the maximum size allowed for the database. I'm not trying to make things more complicated - I'm trying to cram as much functionality into the HMI as I can.

OkiePC:
I did try the method you described, but as I said above to JHarbin, I exceeded the maximum size allowed for a database. I agree that it is incredibly easy to rename and reuse tags and displays that way, I just have too many. I took my Basic zone, changed all of the tags from Basic to Zone1, put all the pages in a folder called Zone1, exported the tags, then reimported the tags into the multi zone project and copied the pages. I repeated it for the other zones but I got to Zone 4 (of 8) and ran out of memory. I do like the Program idea. I'll investigate it further.

I'm just amazed that I finally found something that I prefer to do in FTView. Everything else has been sooo much better/easier in Crimson.
 
jtheis said:
JHarbin:
I do like the widgets and I see their value. However, I have so many pages and tags (when they're multiplied for each zone) that I exceed the maximum size allowed for the database. I'm not trying to make things more complicated - I'm trying to cram as much functionality into the HMI as I can.

OkiePC:
I did try the method you described, but as I said above to JHarbin, I exceeded the maximum size allowed for a database. I agree that it is incredibly easy to rename and reuse tags and displays that way, I just have too many. I took my Basic zone, changed all of the tags from Basic to Zone1, put all the pages in a folder called Zone1, exported the tags, then reimported the tags into the multi zone project and copied the pages. I repeated it for the other zones but I got to Zone 4 (of 8) and ran out of memory. I do like the Program idea. I'll investigate it further.

I'm just amazed that I finally found something that I prefer to do in FTView. Everything else has been sooo much better/easier in Crimson.
Click to expand...

What display are you using? I admit that I only use the G315 and G310 but I use hundreds of tags and as many as 50 pages. I probably have a few displays with thousands of tags and more than 50 pages.
 
I almost filled up a G310 with only about 1500 tags and about 25-30 pages, but there were lots of bitmaps (brought in from a PB32 app). I found a bunch of images that were scaled down to fit on the screen, so I fixed them up with paint.net to make them smaller in filesize without compromising appearance and that freed up quite a bit of space.
 
jtheis said:
I'd estimate somewhere around 1700 tags and around 75 pages per zone.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see that. I've controlled a whole plant with less than that.

Based on your numbers if you only had one zone there would only be 22 tags per page. With 5 zones that averages less than 5 tags per page.

Sounds like some rethinking of display strategy might be in order.

Which display are you using? A G315 could probably handle that.
 
jtheis said:
I'd estimate somewhere around 1700 tags and around 75 pages per zone.
Click to expand...

OK, I just pulled one of my projects.

It has around 2500 Tags and 122 pages including popup pages (41 are full screen pages that are filled with tags).

The image database has 75 images, again full disclosure, most are from the Crimson 3.0 image library, but not all.

There are over 250 instances of widgets used in this one display project. That doesn't count the other 200+ widgets that I have used to create pipe, tees, and elbows.

I know we aren't comparing apples to apples, but if I can put this much stuff into one display and be comfortable that it isn't even close to full, I would think we could figure out a way to make your project work if you have chosen the best display for the application.

I can't help but wonder if you need 75 pages per zone if you don't need to upsize the dislay. My fear would be that your operators would get lost in a system with that many pages.

Just offering suggestions...
 

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