Panelview 300 to 400 upgrading???

Hi all, I've not posted on here before and although I've been a maintenance electrician for 20 plus years I'm still reasonably new to the the software side of things! Anyway my reason for posting is we currently have 30 or so machines with PanelView 300 HMI's, (these are now no longer available) I have been told that we need to fit PanelView plus 6 400 terminals. Can anyone offer any advice as to how I go about upgrading the software from one to the other? Will I be able to do it if I buy FactoryTalk View Machine Edition software or has anyone got any alternative solutions to the problem? Thanks in advance.

As much as I hate to say it, you may want to look into the Panelview Component 4 inch. They operate off 24VDC, are color, and have embedded ethernet, serial, usb, RS-232, and RS-485. I hate to say it because they use Connected Components Workbench, which I don't particularly like working with, but it is free software. I'm pretty sure there isn't anything the Panelview 300 can do that the Component 4 inch can't. Despite the awkwardness of working with them, they actually make pretty nice looking screens and are impressive just in the fact that they offer embedded Ethernet at such a low price point (in case you wanted to upgrade your controllers at some point).

The part number I believe is 2711C-T4M. If they're available in the UK they'd be a really nice upgrade for you. They're lower cost than the Panelview Plus, the programming software is free, and you don't need any special cabling (programmed via standard USB cable).

Thanks, I will look into those, anything cheaper and easier sounds like a good idea to me! I did forget to say that my old panelveiws are connected to SLC 5/01 via a DH485 cable so as long as that will all still work!!??

I would also recommend looking into them. There is a lot of hate for the components on these forums, but I believe you basically get what you pay for with them.

Programming is a little bit of a headache using the web browser based programming software, mainly because everything is kindof slow and you spend a lot of time waiting on stuff to load. I personally have never used the CCW software, so i don't know if that is any better. The component units also don't seem to last as long as the panelview+, but we seem to get several years out of them. Overall, I just can't justify the price difference for a panelview+ for small panels with few buttons/screens.

Helliana said:

I would also recommend looking into them. There is a lot of hate for the components on these forums, but I believe you basically get what you pay for with them.

Programming is a little bit of a headache using the web browser based programming software, mainly because everything is kindof slow and you spend a lot of time waiting on stuff to load. I personally have never used the CCW software, so i don't know if that is any better. The component units also don't seem to last as long as the panelview+, but we seem to get several years out of them. Overall, I just can't justify the price difference for a panelview+ for small panels with few buttons/screens.

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Hello sparkonaut,

we did this upgrade from PanelView 300 Micro to PanelView C400 a few months ago (we have around 40 screens, even with some Trends).
We are happy with the C400, the resolution is very good, and has a lot of options. The only thing is that it reactas slower than the 300. And if you use DF1 you have to take special care with floating point (real) Values, until firmware 1.8 will come out.
I really recommend you to use the offline programming software CCW4, because doing it online with the browser is not a real option. The CCW was really buggy in Versions 1 and 2, 3 got better and the actual Version 4 is really stable and fast, and also permit offline validating.


Best regards,
crawler009

crawler009 said:

Hello sparkonaut,

we did this upgrade from PanelView 300 Micro to PanelView C400 a few months ago (we have around 40 screens, even with some Trends).
We are happy with the C400, the resolution is very good, and has a lot of options. The only thing is that it reactas slower than the 300. And if you use DF1 you have to take special care with floating point (real) Values, until firmware 1.8 will come out.
I really recommend you to use the offline programming software CCW4, because doing it online with the browser is not a real option. The CCW was really buggy in Versions 1 and 2, 3 got better and the actual Version 4 is really stable and fast, and also permit offline validating.


Best regards,
crawler009

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I second this. CCW 1-3 were garbage, and the online programming environment is basically CCW 1.0. When these first came out, the only way to program them was online, so the only way you could develop screens was to have the physical Panelview with you and connected to your computer. This obviously didn't fly, and with every release of CCW the development process is more and more offline, which is a good thing. Although, it is nice to be able to "go online" with a Panelview and make some quick tweaks.

But CCW 4.0 is actually quite tolerable, and offline validation does save a lot of time.

I did notice it reacts slow. Connecting to a processor over ethernet helps, but it's still slower than a regular panelview over ethernet.

There is a lot of hate for the components on these forums, but I believe you basically get what you pay for with them.

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I think the hate is justified. The thing is, the Component series isn't an Allen-Bradley product. A-B/Rockwell is in this mode where they're just buying up every fly-by-night automation startup company they can find. Instead of being like Schneider or GE they're trying to dominate every sector of the automation market instead of focusing on certain aspects of it. The problem with this is that A-B is starting to suffer from "jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome. They're so unfocused and splintered that it makes the product line suffer. They'll have teams in the US, South America, and Eastern Europe all developing a single product with (it seems) barely any communication. There's no uniformity across the product lines so it really is like you're dealing with dozens of separate companies as opposed to one, and it's frustrating to deal with. Every year they come out with "the next big thing" and it's totally different in every way from what they've done before. So then we waste time learning the new platform that makes no sense only to have the product line be obsolete in 5 years.

My problem with the Panelview Component series is that there are so many better options out there: C-More Micro, Red Lion, the list goes on. The 4 inch is really the only one that competes because it has color, a higher resolution, and Ethernet.

sparkonaut said:

Thanks, I will look into those, anything cheaper and easier sounds like a good idea to me! I did forget to say that my old panelveiws are connected to SLC 5/01 via a DH485 cable so as long as that will all still work!!??

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A-B offers a 2711C-CBL-AB03 which is meant to connect a Panelview Component to a SLC5/01, 02, or 03. Your existing cable might work since the 5 pin connector on the Panelview is a phoenix-type removable screw terminal but you'll have to do the figure out which conductors go to where.

Gents, Thanks for the advice, having looked into it some what in the last week the C400 component looks like the most viable option at the moment! The only problem I can forsee at this stage converting the software. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this? I have not used the CCW is it anything like panel builder 32? Will I be able to import and modify a pb32 program?

Again thanks for any advice!

Richard

To my knowledge, you cannot convert old panelbuilder32 files to a panelveiew component. CCW is an free all-in-one software that you can use to program the micro800 line of PLCs, program drives, and program the component panelviews, so for that reason it is nothing like Panelbuilder32. I haven't used the program to for panelviews, so i can't really comment on its functionality. However, before CCW came out, the panelview components were programmed through your web browser using a web interface. Because of this, the software wasn't very quick to respond but it wasn't hard to program. If you can handle making screens in Panelbuilder32 or FactoryTalk view, programming a component should be easy enough.

If you would like to play around with CCW, its a free download of ab's site. Download it and begin playing with it.

I've used CCW and it has come a long way since version 1. What's also nice is (I believe) most of the TechConnect articles for it are publicly viewable.

It is a LOT different than Panelbuilder 32. In fact it's more similar to Microsoft Visual Studio than it is to any other HMI programming software from AB. There is no direct conversion path. Suffice to say, forget everything you know about HMI development. All the programs will have to be rewritten.

You would have run into this with Panelview Plus as well, since FactoryTalk View ME is also a lot different than Panelbuilder32 and I personally have never seen or heard of a direct conversion. The set up process is just too different.

You can download CCW at http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/programmable-controllers/connected-components-workbench-software

There are links to tutorial videos on that page as well.

brstilson said:

You would have run into this with Panelview Plus as well, since FactoryTalk View ME is also a lot different than Panelbuilder32 and I personally have never seen or heard of a direct conversion. The set up process is just too different.

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There is a conversion i believe, but i haven't used it. I believe it works alot like the some of AB's other conversion tools. It will "convert" it, but you'll be spending more time debugging it than it would have been to reprogram the thing to begin with. I always looked at reprogramming as a time to finally fix all the issues i didn't like with the original program and to remove all the outdated features that were never used anyway. Plus, if you are moving to a panelview component, i doubt you have several hundred complex screens to convert, so manually reprogramming shouldn't be too horrible.

Helliana said:

There is a conversion i believe, but i haven't used it. I believe it works alot like the some of AB's other conversion tools. It will "convert" it, but you'll be spending more time debugging it than it would have been to reprogram the thing to begin with. I always looked at reprogramming as a time to finally fix all the issues i didn't like with the original program and to remove all the outdated features that were never used anyway. Plus, if you are moving to a panelview component, i doubt you have several hundred complex screens to convert, so manually reprogramming shouldn't be too horrible.

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Since the OP is upgrading from a 300, there are probably a number of screens he could eliminate. There is so much more real estate on the 400 as there is on the 300 it's pretty incredible.