TIA V(11) & TIA V(13) vs. slightly older equipment

I was led to believe that TIA V(13) was backward compatible with the S7 1200 series CPU and related hardware. The equipment I have is only about 2+ years old. I did have some difficulty programming the 1212C with the V(11); however things got better when I updated CPU firmware to 2.0, and TIA (V11) to SP2, update 5. Silly me, I expected TIA V(13) to communicate with that CPU .. but, it doesn't.

Any practical solutions out there ... other than upgrading/updating the CPU .. and, is the TIA V(13) really able to work with older equipment?

Thanks, Regards, Michael

V13 is definitely able to communicate with the older hardware.

However, the newest 1200 (firmware v4, and a different part number) has additional security in the communication from the engineering software to the PLC. By default, V13 will add the most recent version of the 1200 when you add the PLC, you need to make sure to select the part number and firmware version that match your hw. If you select Unspecified 1200, it should be able to auto detect your hw and versions.

If you have a v4 PLC project that you want to convert to v2, then I think you may have to go to v3 as a middle step in the Change Device dialog before it will allow you to select v2.

Hi mk42 ... thanks for the reply.
I did use auto detect .. and the PLC (V2) was found, and I flashed the LED's .. so, was very happy that things were looking good. However, when It came time to connect, TIA V13 couldn't do it. I do have a version 4 PLC, but I would like to know that V13 TIA can talk to the older one. Thanks for confirming that it should communicate... Now to find out why it doesn't.

By the way, The V2 PLC is in a working project, and the TIA, V11 is having no problem programming that project.

I'm curious, when you do a "unspecified 1200", auto detect .. shouldn't the TIA also detect the firmware version number? Why do I need to input that info? .. and... how do I determine the version number.. I think it's 2.0 .. or possibly 2.01 or something like that. It certainly isn't as high as 2.2.

Thanks, regards, Michael

Hi Again mk42 .. I just remembered..when using auto detect.. TIA V13 asks for the firmware number from a pull down menu .. it offers nothing below 2.2. My 1212C is version 2.0.1 i see no evidence that TIA actually "detects" the firmware version number of any hardware.. even the HMI.. You are required to enter it.

Thats interesting, I don't recall having to select the FW version before. I think i have an older 1200 CPU laying around, I'll see if I can test it.

I have both Basic and Pro V13 and V12

Yesterday I was trying to program a 6ES7212-1BE31-0XB0 and could not select it when using Pro and was getting errors with auto detect... I never had an issue with V12 (pro or basic) I was able to program it using Basic, I have not gone back to the pro version to see the error but it looked like the hardware was not supported, no issues with a 6ES7214-1BG31-0XB0 and V13

I will look to see if it was just the firmware and see if I can change it also...

Do you have the latest update to V13? Update5. Maybe it has been solved in later updates.

rQx said:

Do you have the latest update to V13? Update5. Maybe it has been solved in later updates.

Click to expand...

Good question .. answer: nope I just got V13 ...
I'll try and do the update(s) .. thanks.

geniusintraining said:

I have both Basic and Pro V13 and V12

Yesterday I was trying to program a 6ES7212-1BE31-0XB0 and could not select it when using Pro and was getting errors with auto detect... I never had an issue with V12 (pro or basic) I was able to program it using Basic, I have not gone back to the pro version to see the error but it looked like the hardware was not supported, no issues with a 6ES7214-1BG31-0XB0 and V13

I will look to see if it was just the firmware and see if I can change it also...

Click to expand...

Thanks for checking Geniusintraining.. If it's a firmware problem (firmware 2.0.1) I'll have to twist the distributor's arm to loan me a chip with the update on it.. I won't pay $350 to update firmware .. it's a matter of principle ..

By the way.. both V11 and V13 (I never had V12) require you to input the firmware version number for the CPU and the HMI .. It's just that no one pays attention to it. The portal has a default value, and many, I suspect, move on without clicking on the drop-down menu and selecting the correct version. For example, the Siemens TIA Tutorials on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9jaNo4R4Nc for an HMI.. version "12" shows up when the HMI is selected, (1 minute in) but there is also a version "11" which is on the drop-down.. which isn't checked.

Regards, Michael

Note that I do have Upd5 installed, but I think this should work regardless. If you select the v2.2 firmware when you add the unspecified 1200, it will detect which version between v1 - V2.2 is in use in the PLC. Mine is apparently v2.1, and when I checked the hw settings, that is what is selected, even though v2.2 was chosen for the unspecified 1200.

What it appears I cannot do is connect to an old PLC that was last downloaded to with V11, and upload the project. V11 blocks are apparently not compatible with V13. I'm hoping that the file format will settle down somewhat with the TIA Portal, but Siemens keeps changing things, adding new columns/attributes, features, etc, that require a new incompatible format. What I could do was create a new project in V13 and download over the old V11 one stored in the PLC.

It appears you would have to migrate the V11 project forward to V13 and redownload if you want to do any kind of monitoring operations on an old CPU that was downloaded with V11.

I was also able to add the oldest part number 1200 into my project, with any firmware version between V1 and v2.2, without detection. I'm not sure if the issue geniusintraining saw was the V13 project vs older project in cpu error, or if it was something else.

mk42 said:

Note that I do have Upd5 installed, but I think this should work regardless. If you select the v2.2 firmware when you add the unspecified 1200, it will detect which version between v1 - V2.2 is in use in the PLC. Mine is apparently v2.1, and when I checked the hw settings, that is what is selected, even though v2.2 was chosen for the unspecified 1200.

What it appears I cannot do is connect to an old PLC that was last downloaded to with V11, and upload the project. V11 blocks are apparently not compatible with V13. I'm hoping that the file format will settle down somewhat with the TIA Portal, but Siemens keeps changing things, adding new columns/attributes, features, etc, that require a new incompatible format. What I could do was create a new project in V13 and download over the old V11 one stored in the PLC.

It appears you would have to migrate the V11 project forward to V13 and redownload if you want to do any kind of monitoring operations on an old CPU that was downloaded with V11.

Click to expand...

Thanks for looking into this.. Nice to know what the portal is doing when you are specifying a component. One wonders why you would input any FW "guess", if it's going to be detected and corrected in the project general properties.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense ... TIA is backward compatible with equipment, just not with TIA's .. That's like saying you can install Windows 8, and do wonderful things, you just can't open any Windows 7 projects... DUH.

But then, you say I could migrate the V11 project into V13 and re-download.. I guess, that's OK

Thanks very much .. you can tell I'm a newbie with this technology.. but, I am enjoying solving problems .. in this case, having other people solve my problems .. sigh!

Regards, Michael

Lamboom said:

Thanks for looking into this.. Nice to know what the portal is doing when you are specifying a component. One wonders why you would input any FW "guess", if it's going to be detected and corrected in the project general properties.

Click to expand...

The communication between Step 7 and the PLC has changed as the HW is upgraded. I think V3 is an improved version of V1-v2.2. V4 is completely different, and has a bunch of security improvements. I don't know why it can't autodetect the protocol version as part of the handshake, but maybe that isn't secure? I dunno.

Lamboom said:

Thanks very much .. you can tell I'm a newbie with this technology.. but, I am enjoying solving problems .. in this case, having other people solve my problems .. sigh!

Click to expand...

It sounds like you understand most of the concepts, and are struggling with some of the basics of working with a new system. I don't know how good your local distributor is, but Siemens tech support is at least decent. No charge during normal business hours for most things, and when you call you get a real person (not an automated menu) who takes your info and figures out who to have call you back (from Tennessee, not India). From what I understand, they'll only ask for a credit card if you need support on a product that is mature (haven't sold the line it in 8-10 years) or you're basically asking them to program your machine for you.

800-333-7421, or support.automation.siemens.com

I don't want to discourage you from asking for help on this site, but sometimes its a lot easier and faster to explain a problem over the phone, than to write it out and hope for a reply.

mk42 said:

I don't want to discourage you from asking for help on this site, but sometimes its a lot easier and faster to explain a problem over the phone, than to write it out and hope for a reply.

Click to expand...

I agree.. The distributor is great, no problems there. I will do that next time. Your knowledge and support is much appreciated.

Regards, Michael
PS..thanks for the phone number & link.

mk42 said:

It appears you would have to migrate the V11 project forward to V13 and redownload if you want to do any kind of monitoring operations on an old CPU that was downloaded with V11.

Click to expand...

Hi mk42.. Was thinking about this.. How could the V13 download anything to a CPU it can't connect to? Are you suggesting the old V11 project actually blocks the connection? Would I have to delete the project from the CPU chip? (have to look up how to do that)

Thanks, Regards, Michael

Sorry, I was unclear.

V13 software is able to connect to a PLC that was last uploaded with V11. You can go online and read the diagnostics, you can connect and download to it, go online and do a factory default, etc. What you CANNOT do is upload the blocks, because the blocks are in a different format.

Basically this means that if you have V13, you cannot backup whatever is in the PLC by uploading it to your PC. You need V11 to be able to do that. If you don't care what is in the PLC, you can download your new project just fine.