OT - Control Panels For Canadian market

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd ask a quick question here, a little of topic but if you don't ask you don't get.

Firstly we are based in the UK and manufacture control panels. One of our regular customers has sold a recycling plant to a company in Canada. They have asked us to build a panel to suit the Canadian regulations. I'm assuming this is all contained in the CSA standards? The design of the panel is not the issue here, what I'd like to know is what are the hoops we would have to jump through to get the panel into the country? Does the panel have to be inspected by a CSA expert once in the country? Any information or experience that you may have of this would be greatly appreciated.

We have sent control panels all around the world, to the USA, To Australia, Malaysia, Russia and a few middle eastern and African countries as well. We have never been questioned or, to my knowledge, had to have a control panel inspected either on site or before it enters the country. The reason for my concern with Canada is one of our suppliers has warned us of a different local company that experienced massive difficulties in getting a control panel into Canada and eventually it ended up having to be manufactured there instead.

thanks for any help.

regards

Jonny

John. Just my thougts but it would be prudent to gain CSA approval before exporting the panel. I believe there are people over here that can do this for you, and will supply a consultant for a fee of course. If possible build the cost into your panel. Regards Badger.

We have imported equipment from the UK before and had issues. The biggest one is that they really want to see that the components are stamped CSA/cUL approved. We had to change all the breakers in a panel that was shipped over due to that. This may help you out a bit: http://www.esasafe.com/electricalproducts/marks


It depends where in Canada the panel is going. In Ontario for instance, the equipment would receive a "Special Inspection" by the Electrical Safety Authority (ESA) and then would be approved once on site.

Really quick replies and very helpful, thanks. 99% of the components we use are stamped CSA already but at least I now have a heads up that they are particularly stringent on markings and do carry out inspections.

Any more information guys, it's all really appreciated.

thanks

Jonny

We've built panels for Canada and never had an issue as long as they are to CSA (as in they contain CSA approve equipment - we never get the panels approved as a finished assembly). From past experience in other countries it is usually the customer that creates the problem and hides behind regulations.

We are a systems integrator that often get involved commissioning entire process lines shipped from Europe.
Mostly we have seen CSA have issues with, power supplies, fuse holders and circuit breakers.
As long as you ensure the above 3 have CSA/UL certification, you should be good.

I would also check all of the wiring in the panel. Be sure that it is marked and can be proven to perform to specifications.
We had a panel that had to be completely rewired in Ontario because the wire could not be identified.
Regards,
Garry
http://www.accautomation.ca

Here in the US, there is no nationwide requirement for control panels to be listed by what we call an "NRTL" (Nationally Recognized Testing Lab), such as UL or CSA, but on a state-by-state basis, that requirement can be added into each State's version of adaptation of the National Electric Code. So for example here in California and 13 of the Western states, you cannot connect a control panel without and NRTL listing, and a control panel is defined as an enclosure with over 5 components (counting the box). But if you have only sent equipment to states that don't have that requirement, you can get away with that. Also if your equipment is installed in a factory and they don't take out a permit, so it is not inspected, that gets around it too. Insurance companies however usually have a rider requiring NRTL listing.

But in Canada, CSA is more stringently enforced on a national basis. You can use CSA, or you can use UL, with special CSA rules (referred to a cUL), but having nothing can be very risky for the end user. Of course if they install it without a permit, no problem, unless they get caught installing equipment without a permit, or there is a fire later and the insurance company finds out it was not permitted, then refuses to pay the claim...

All that said, CSA tends to be very cooperative on performing field evaluations, and they don't really gouge you (a tendency UL has a reputation for). You just have to be prepared to make whatever changes they come up with, and be forewarned, the ALWAYS find something. For example I built some panels once and used all CSA listed components, methods etc. (I was a listed UL-508 panel shop, but did not have the cUL endorsement yet). When they arrived, I had to fly up there to install grounding jumpers to all of the enclosure doors. UL allows doors to ground through the hinges, CSA does not.

Hi Guys,

This is turning out to be a really informative post, thanks so much for all your help.

In response to jraef, the panels we have sent to the USA have been built to my interpretation of UL508. It is very difficult for us to get UL489 circuit breakers here in the UK. They have to be built to order in Germany (usually) and are an extortionate price. In the UK it is a requirement for ground jumpers on enclosure doors so we add that as a matter of course anyway. We use clynder cable, which is a little more expensive trirated but does carry all appropriate markings and is a nicer cable to work with overall so paying the extra really pays off.

I contacted a consultancy firm in the Uk for some guidelines on the best course of action. They recommended building the panel to CSA specification as best I can, they will take a look at our schematics and bill of materials to ensure all is within specification and then we would send the panel to Canada with a requirement for the customer to have the panel inspected by an appropriate body.

Code Rule: OESC 2012 Rule 02-022 - No person shall use, advertise, display, sell, offer for sale or other disposal any electrical equipment unless it has been approved in accordance with Ontario Regulation 438/07 and Rule 2-024.

You can not legally ship your equipment to Canada without an ESA recognized approval. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but if an inspector sees an unapproved piece of equipment he will lock it out. An approval is usually easy to obtain (within Ontario anyways). The biggest thing the inspector looks for is all components are CSA or CRU/US recognized and the panel adheres to the Canadian electrical code.

Just to follow up on this, I am in contact with a company now to advise us on components and best practices for panel building.

We are also supplying all the site installation equipment including cable to the customer (something we tried to get out of!). Here in the UK we use SWA (Steel wired armoured) cable on all our circuits in this type of plant. What type of cable would be used in Canada which would be equivalent? The plant will be within a large building, probably damp and cold. All cabling will be routed on standard cable tray. Any pointer son this would be appreciated.

thanks

Jonny

Hi Guys,

I have another question re. approvals. The company I've used to advise me on the design of the panel have said that Schneider Electric / Telemecanique GV2ME** manual motor starters are not suitable for branch protection. I agree with this but I was of the opinion that when used in a group with a feed circuit breaker not exceeding 125A then they could be used as the protection device of the motor. Can anyone clarify? The manual starter states that it is suitable as a motor disconnect and suitable for motor group installation. It also has CSA stamp on it.

I was also sent a link to this document. http://www.csagroup.org/cn/en/services/testing-and-certification/certified-product-listing/certficate/081630_0_000%257C3211-05

I interpret this document as per my statement above. Does anyone else read / interpret anything differently?

Do inspectors tend to check to ensure the correct type of circuit breaker has been used for Feeder and branch circuits or are they more concerned with product listing markings rather than the way they are installed / used?

Thanks

Jonny

anyone answer the question above?

thanks