Remote IO and Modicon M340

grnick50

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Hello

I have a system using a Modicon M340 with onboard Modbus and Ethernet. I want to add some remote IOs and given that:
1. Schneider's Advantys OTB uses this horrible Twido's IO modules and
2. Schneider's Advantys STB is ridiculously expensive,
Schneider's offer is out of the question.

I know that the onboard ethernet port does not support IO scanning. To add RIOs on to the M340 do I have to add another ethernet module (NOE) that supports IO scaning or is there a way to do it using the onboard ethernet?

Do you have a suggestion for a remote IO on ethernet (Modbus TCP/IP is that correct) that will work with the M340. I never worked with Wago but I think they have a Such RIOs. Can anyone suggest a part number for the interface so that I can start looking into it?

Regards
 
You can use B&R's X20 IO by using the ModbusTCP bus controller:
http://www.br-automation.com/en-us/products/io-systems/x20-system/bus-controllers/x20bc0087/

You program the bus controller using their free FieldbusDESIGNER software (you can download it from the download tab on the page in the link) and it will make the various coils and registers available for you to get at with a Modbus TCP Master (client). Should be cheaper than STO, don't know price comparison to Wago.

Similar deal with their machine mount IP67 IO:
http://www.br-automation.com/en-us/products/io-systems/x67-system/bus-controller-modules/x67bcj321/
It will be a lot more expensive than X20, but you don't need a panel.
 
Last edited:
You could use read_var / write_var function blocks with the processor port if you really wanted to. I would not entertain this - have programmed enough of these blocks and do not enjoy it. Using IOScanner is so much faster it's not even worth considering using something else (my opinion). Some options in list form:

1. Use read_var/write_var blocks with the processor port. You will spend a lot of time programming/debugging this, but it is possible.
2. Add a NOE module and use the IOScanner service for easy configuration to communicate with ModbusTCP slaves
3. Add a NOC module and be able to use the scanner services both for ModbusTCP or EtherNet/IP Class 1 communications, either/or or both at the same time
4. If your processor has CANOpen, use CANOpen IO

My preference is (3) due to the flexibility of handling both protocols, and it's their future. Some day, the NOE will go away and you will be left with NOCs. I have been told countless times by the Schneider guys they focus on Ethernet going forward.

As far as IO, I prefer to avoid the OTB series, though I did find performance to be good on these devices. I always thought STB was relatively cheap, but find other vendors' IO to be easier to deal with. There are advantages to using Schneider IO with Unity as there are configuration capabilities that can save you time, if that is of value. Especially with the NOC where you have to use DTMs for configuration.

For third party vendors, this is a crowded space for network IO.

Rockwell EtherNet/IP IO with pointIO and others
Wago
Phoenix Contact
Turck
Advantech
Sixnet (Redlion)
Acromag
Beckhoff (many say this is priced well)
Moxa
and of course others have mentioned different brands...
(sorry in advance if I missed your favorite product!)
 
HAve you had a look at the PRA module? Then you use normal m340 IO in the remote racks. Each remote rack will have a pra module
 
There is no reason to use an NOE over an NOC that I know of.

Ethernet remote I/O for the M340 is an awkward thing if you want the same BMX I/O modules at the remote that you have locally on the processor.

I've used the PRA with M340. The PRA is a strange product. It isn't a true remote I/O adaptor at all. It is a reduced size Ethernet CPU that has to have a program developed for it just like the M340 Ethernet CPU. The NOC or NOE can do I/O scanning to it but you have to put code into the PRA to map the data to it's I/O. You have to keep a program file for it just like the M340 processor because that is exactly what it is - a smaller size M340 processor. You have to write code for at least one and probably both sides to detect communications failures and shut down the I/O on the remote end. You can solve some logic out there at the remote end if you want to - so there is some flexibility that may be desirable in some cases. The only advantage that the PRA has over putting a separate CPU out there is less cost - although it may add an extra item to your spare parts inventory. It's uncertain if I will ever use a PRA again.

I've use a lot of Advantys STB Modbus TCP remote I/O with good results. Almost all the time I've been able to use the default addressing for the modules and the role-name dhcp to load the IP. This results in a remote drop that is completely electrician changeable including the NIP without needing to use the Advantys configuration software. Schneider's official position seems to be that you must use the Advantys software to configure an island. I know from experience on 40+ islands over the years that in most cases that is not true. I want a remote I/O system that can be smashed with a forktruck and the electricians bolt in the parts, set the address switches, and get it going without calling me to bring the laptop. Advantys can do this. Most of my experience with STB has been on Quantum but some has been on M340.

Ethernet/IP configuration for remote devices on an NOC module initially seems to be clumsy compared to Rockwell but the results seem to be good once you figure out how it works. Around 7 years ago I had a lot of Ethernet/IP stuff hooked to various combinations of AB ControlLogix and Modicon M340. The Schneider phone support people were wondering why I was using Ethernet/IP to go from an M340 to a Schneider VFD. I'm a fan of Modbus in some situations but I wasn't interested in using a 50+ year old protocol for that installation. Now it has a mixture of Schneider and AB cpus with motor control from AB, Schneider, Weg, Cutler, and some others. Ethernet/IP has lived up to it's promises.

- - -

The executive summary of my opinion is - skip the PRA and use Ethernet/IP with an NOC module. Expect a reasonable amount of learning curve.
 
so
There is no reason to use an NOE over an NOC that I know of.

Ethernet remote I/O for the M340 is an awkward thing if you want the same BMX I/O modules at the remote that you have locally on the processor.

I've used the PRA with M340. The PRA is a strange product. It isn't a true remote I/O adaptor at all. It is a reduced size Ethernet CPU that has to have a program developed for it just like the M340 Ethernet CPU. The NOC or NOE can do I/O scanning to it but you have to put code into the PRA to map the data to it's I/O. You have to keep a program file for it just like the M340 processor because that is exactly what it is - a smaller size M340 processor. You have to write code for at least one and probably both sides to detect communications failures and shut down the I/O on the remote end. You can solve some logic out there at the remote end if you want to - so there is some flexibility that may be desirable in some cases. The only advantage that the PRA has over putting a separate CPU out there is less cost - although it may add an extra item to your spare parts inventory. It's uncertain if I will ever use a PRA again.

I've use a lot of Advantys STB Modbus TCP remote I/O with good results. Almost all the time I've been able to use the default addressing for the modules and the role-name dhcp to load the IP. This results in a remote drop that is completely electrician changeable including the NIP without needing to use the Advantys configuration software. Schneider's official position seems to be that you must use the Advantys software to configure an island. I know from experience on 40+ islands over the years that in most cases that is not true. I want a remote I/O system that can be smashed with a forktruck and the electricians bolt in the parts, set the address switches, and get it going without calling me to bring the laptop. Advantys can do this. Most of my experience with STB has been on Quantum but some has been on M340.

Ethernet/IP configuration for remote devices on an NOC module initially seems to be clumsy compared to Rockwell but the results seem to be good once you figure out how it works. Around 7 years ago I had a lot of Ethernet/IP stuff hooked to various combinations of AB ControlLogix and Modicon M340. The Schneider phone support people were wondering why I was using Ethernet/IP to go from an M340 to a Schneider VFD. I'm a fan of Modbus in some situations but I wasn't interested in using a 50+ year old protocol for that installation. Now it has a mixture of Schneider and AB cpus with motor control from AB, Schneider, Weg, Cutler, and some others. Ethernet/IP has lived up to it's promises.

- - -

The executive summary of my opinion is - skip the PRA and use Ethernet/IP with an NOC module. Expect a reasonable amount of learning curve.
There is no reason to use an NOE over an NOC that I know of.

Ethernet remote I/O for the M340 is an awkward thing if you want the same BMX I/O modules at the remote that you have locally on the processor.

I've used the PRA with M340. The PRA is a strange product. It isn't a true remote I/O adaptor at all. It is a reduced size Ethernet CPU that has to have a program developed for it just like the M340 Ethernet CPU. The NOC or NOE can do I/O scanning to it but you have to put code into the PRA to map the data to it's I/O. You have to keep a program file for it just like the M340 processor because that is exactly what it is - a smaller size M340 processor. You have to write code for at least one and probably both sides to detect communications failures and shut down the I/O on the remote end. You can solve some logic out there at the remote end if you want to - so there is some flexibility that may be desirable in some cases. The only advantage that the PRA has over putting a separate CPU out there is less cost - although it may add an extra item to your spare parts inventory. It's uncertain if I will ever use a PRA again.

I've use a lot of Advantys STB Modbus TCP remote I/O with good results. Almost all the time I've been able to use the default addressing for the modules and the role-name dhcp to load the IP. This results in a remote drop that is completely electrician changeable including the NIP without needing to use the Advantys configuration software. Schneider's official position seems to be that you must use the Advantys software to configure an island. I know from experience on 40+ islands over the years that in most cases that is not true. I want a remote I/O system that can be smashed with a forktruck and the electricians bolt in the parts, set the address switches, and get it going without calling me to bring the laptop. Advantys can do this. Most of my experience with STB has been on Quantum but some has been on M340.

Ethernet/IP configuration for remote devices on an NOC module initially seems to be clumsy compared to Rockwell but the results seem to be good once you figure out how it works. Around 7 years ago I had a lot of Ethernet/IP stuff hooked to various combinations of AB ControlLogix and Modicon M340. The Schneider phone support people were wondering why I was using Ethernet/IP to go from an M340 to a Schneider VFD. I'm a fan of Modbus in some situations but I wasn't interested in using a 50+ year old protocol for that installation. Now it has a mixture of Schneider and AB cpus with motor control from AB, Schneider, Weg, Cutler, and some others. Ethernet/IP has lived up to it's promises.

- - -

The executive summary of my opinion is - skip the PRA and use Ethernet/IP with an NOC module. Expect a reasonable amount of learning curve.
Thank you so much !(y)
 
@chud but i think Pra module design for PLCs like M580, Momentum, Quantum not for M340 isn't it ?
Your post is 9 years late, but also not correct. I have used the PRA module multiple times with m340.
This was long ago, so in hindsight I would just use a Noe(modbus tcp/ip ioscanning) or a Noc (ethernet ip)
with any remote io from other suppliers. I found Weidmullers to be the easiest to implement and install
 
I've use a lot of Advantys STB Modbus TCP remote I/O with good results. Almost all the time I've been able to use the default addressing for the modules and the role-name dhcp to load the IP. This results in a remote drop that is completely electrician changeable including the NIP without needing to use the Advantys configuration software.

Advantys is old. Modbus can calculated without software, but who would want do that.
 
Nothing wrong with using the software to find the modbus. I don't want to use it to configure the island because then it isn't changeable without the software.
 

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