Automation Direct PLC's Opinions

surferb said:

I expected this thread to open up a can of worms. Surprisingly, conversation has been on topic about technical details and possible alternatives. There are many similar posts that also provide good information, just do a search. This is one of those threads that has been discussed time and time again. The last one I remember digressed from useful information and got into a branding flame war.

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I did a search on this topic, but I couldn't help myself
& I'm glad I posted the question because I got some good info out it.
As for opening a can of worms, I wasn't really thinking about that. The LAST thing I want to do is start an arguement, as
of now, I could see where this topic could turn south.
I guess that I should have thought about it more.
I'm glad to see that it hasn't turned into something it wasn't
intended to be.

CharlesM said:

Take the time to learn stage programming. If your doing a sequence type program it is very nice.

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I looked into some of manuals about stage programming,
I haven't seen it before but it doesn't look too bad, just different. If my boss gives me the go ahead I'll
have to try it. I like to keep my programs as simple as I
can & somewhat organized, if that's even possible in my case.
(I can't even keep my wallet organized.)

Take a look at these.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=11015

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=22335

2 of the best threads ever on here, all AD. I did not get to participate much in the first but got to throw out some ideas on the 2nd.

No, I didn't mean to come off that way. You did nothing wrong by posting that question. You can see that it's a hot topic by how quickly you got so many responses! Somehow, those get into these ideology debates like Linux versus Windows, which are informative to the extent that releveant issues are being discussed. Unfortunately, guys get into arguements over which is better, that then turn into flame wars. My reference was to the particularly annoying case where someone who clearly has no experience with the product attacks it so aggressively. Look at SLC_Integrators 4 posts for an example of that.

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=33781

I also wanted to reinforce the practice of searching before starting a new thread. Often, these conversations have been discussed and there is already good info.

Welcome to plctalk! ;-)

Duwop said:

I did a search on this topic, but I couldn't help myself
& I'm glad I posted the question because I got some good info out it.
As for opening a can of worms, I wasn't really thinking about that. The LAST thing I want to do is start an arguement, as
of now, I could see where this topic could turn south.
I guess that I should have thought about it more.
I'm glad to see that it hasn't turned into something it wasn't
intended to be.

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Personally would not worry, or discuss flame wars, it is in the past even if yesterday.

As most know I am just a Bubba but many here can tell y'all about the "war" I got into where a supposed Engineer with a Masters blah, blah, blah, told us that a diode does not rectify AC to DC.

I was not ashamed of my replies etc., so still here. Feel free to ask whatever you want or reply as you think is correct. The replies are the fun and educational part, just blush and move on when corrected if wrong with a reply.

Overall, a plc is a plc.

rsdoran said:

Take a look at these.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=11015

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=22335

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Now These posts is why I really like this site!
People helping other people!
I wish I knew more people like you guys.

Thanks for all the help! You'll probably see me again around here.

Oh yea rsdoran,
You mentioned the term "Bubba", now that's a term I seem to hear
alot, especially living here in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Small world as they say.

I agree! All in all this site and the people on it are very helpful!

Now, to get a cute girl avatar so I don't get flamed so much for my questionable opinions....

Duwop said:

Now These posts is why I really like this site!
People helping other people!
I wish I knew more people like you guys.

Thanks for all the help! You'll probably see me again around here.

Oh yea rsdoran,
You mentioned the term "Bubba", now that's a term I seem to hear
alot, especially living here in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Small world as they say.

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rsdoran said:

Personally would not worry, or discuss flame wars, it is in the past even if yesterday.

As most know I am just a Bubba but many here can tell y'all about the "war" I got into where a supposed Engineer with a Masters blah, blah, blah, told us that a diode does not rectify AC to DC.

I was not ashamed of my replies etc., so still here. Feel free to ask whatever you want or reply as you think is correct. The replies are the fun and educational part, just blush and move on when corrected if wrong with a reply.

Overall, a plc is a plc.

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Different definitions of DC are thrown around. In engineering, DC is a steady voltage and I can see why he said that a diode doesn't convert AC to DC because what you have is half of a sine wave. Other places, you'll see that DC just refers to anything that is in on polarity.

Automation Direct is still my favorite PLC. The software is easy to learn the hardware good quality, and the technical support top notch. I've done some very sophisticated process control using this platform. In terms of bang for the buck they can't be beat.

Like anything, there are pluses and minuses, but overall you should be pleased. As I've said before, to make the transition easy don't try to figure out how to make the ADC act like an A-B. Instead, concentrate on the application and figure out how to make the ADC do the job required.

jeebusmn said:

Different definitions of DC are thrown around. In engineering, DC is a steady voltage and I can see why he said that a diode doesn't convert AC to DC because what you have is half of a sine wave. Other places, you'll see that DC just refers to anything that is in on polarity.

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That is the point, DC does not mean it is a steady state voltage. The term DC is direct current while AC is alternating current.

It does not matter whether you think in electron or conventional flow what those terms mean is DC only has current flow in one direction while AC the current alternates positive to negative; which reverses current flow in the process.

Therefore if you connect AC through a diode the output voltage may pulsate in concert with the input frequency but the current always flows one direction i.e. does not alternate. In many cases just a diode is sufficient enough to provide the needed voltage.

I agree, to obtain Pure DC or a steady state voltage more will be required to reduce ripple i.e. the fluctuations of the DC voltage when obtained using a diode supplied by AC.

The Laws of Physics etc. has defined what DC is, we can not decide that we can define it to what we think it is. I want offer my links, just look up the definition for DC, AC, and diode.

See, some say Tah Mah toe and others say Toe MAY toe, personally just a mater to me. The same goes with plcs, in general most will do what is needed albeit some may have more features then others.

Old Flame War Alert !!!!

I had one little disappointment though... the 120v powered, 24vdc input model requires an EXTERNAL 24v power supply...

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Steve,
The DL 105 (not the DL 05) has an internal 24 VDC power supply that can be used for inputs or to power a graphic display panel. At least the DL 105 model F1-130AR does. It is 120 VAC powered, 10 AC inputs, 8 AC/DC relay outputs, with 24 VDC 500 mA auxiliary power terminals on bottom left corner.

http://web1.automationdirect.com/static/specs/f1130ar.pdf

The DL-105 model F1-130DA also has the auxiliary 24 VDC power. It might be more what you need. It has ten 24VDC inputs.

http://web1.automationdirect.com/static/specs/f1130da.pdf

CharlesM said:

You could go with the DL105. Its about the same thing as the DL05 and it has a 24V power supply built in. However it does not have the exp. slot.

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Lancie1 said:

The DL 105 (not DL 05) has an internal 24 VDC power supply that can be used for inputs or to power a graphic display panel.

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I believe if I use one of these plc's I'm probably going to go
with a DL06 or higher.
I've used the 24vdc p/s that's built in plc's before, but not lately because all the panels I've put plc's in recently
already have mammoth power supplies. I still like having
the option though.

Lancie1 said:

The DL 105 (not DL 05) has an internal 24 VDC power supply that can be used for inputs or to power a graphic display panel.

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Yeah, That was pointed out to me...... I checked out the 105 pretty close this afternoon. It will probably do, and with the 30 day return policy I have the option to switch. I have to decide whether to make the switch while it's still early enough in the game. One question I want to ask Direct (if no one here knows for sure): The DL05 brags about "flash" memory, the 105 does not. Now I know the 105 probably has "non volatile" memory. But it doesn't say "flash".

For this application I want to program a few spares for the customer to change out as necessary. I want them to be able to lay around in some drawer for YEARS, and still function like magic when installed. If the 105 will do that, I'll probably make the switch.

Stationmaster

Stationmaster,

The DL-105 stores the ladder in EEPROM memory. I have used them several times. I never lost a program while it was on the shelf. I put the DL-105 in some nerve-gas monitoring equipment (about 30 units) for use at a military base, and I think they are still working after 7 years.

rsdoran said:

That is the point, DC does not mean it is a steady state voltage. The term DC is direct current while AC is alternating current.

It does not matter whether you think in electron or conventional flow what those terms mean is DC only has current flow in one direction while AC the current alternates positive to negative; which reverses current flow in the process.
.

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"
Within electrical engineering, the term DC is a synonym for "constant". For example, the voltage across a DC voltage source is constant as is the current through a DC current source. The DC solution of an electric circuit is the solution where all voltages and currents are constant. It can be shown that any voltage or current waveform can be decomposed into a sum of a DC component and a time-varying component. The DC component is defined to be the average value of the voltage or current over all time. The average value of the time-varying component is zero.

Although DC stands for "Direct Current", DC sometimes refers to "constant polarity." With this definition, DC voltages can vary in time, such as the raw output of a rectifier or the fluctuating voice signal on a telephone line.

Some forms of DC (such as that produced by a voltage regulator) have almost no variations in voltage, but may still have variations in output power and current."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_current





Figure 5.

Still, the signal will not be absolutely constant. Upon inclusion of the capacitor, the AC signal has now been converted to DC signal with a ripple. Ripple is a small AC signal on the backgraound of a big DC signal. The ripple factor can be expressed quantitatively as the ratio between the amplitude of the AC waveform and the DC signal. where
http://www.utc.edu/Faculty/Tatiana-Allen/Diode.html


Here is a manual for an oscilloscpe as to how to measure VAC. You flip the oscilloscope to AC to remove the VDC Offset, the constant DC voltage component of your signal. With that you can calculate your ripple factor (RF) to show how well your circuit removes AC from your DC.

Different industries have different definitions. Inside of electrical engineering, this is the definition that is used.