Carwash controller

sparkie · Jul 18, 2017

So today we were installing a 100A subpanel, and the owner of the car wash said that one of the guys mentioned I was familiar with PLC's. He has an up and coming project he is wanting to do, so I did a quick evaluation and snapped this picture of some IO cards. I'm not sure if one of them is the controller, or there is a separate controller somewhere (which I kind of suspect given the network connections between these cards).

Anyone familiar with the brand/software/interface with these to get me started so I can let the owner know if our company can do his work?

The mechanical/electromechanical/fluid power systems aren't all that complicated, but I'm a bit stumped on the controller itself.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B16yQQvQcc82Z0l3Y1pXeG5CNU0/view?usp=sharing

Tom Jenkins · Jul 18, 2017

The label says PDQ Vehicle Wash System, so it might be a custom controller.

http://www.pdqinc.com/

sparkie · Jul 18, 2017

Tom Jenkins said:
The label says PDQ Vehicle Wash System, so it might be a custom controller.

http://www.pdqinc.com/

I'm wondering the same thing myself. I found their site, but I wanted to dig a bit deeper before I gave them a call. Poking around, I've found some of their systems with OMRON cpus, and am wondering if there may not be one of those in a separate cabinet somewhere (as this cabinet is a 400A cabinet).

jraef · Jul 18, 2017

My experience with car wash owners...

Run. Run NOW.

The reason there are companies that specialize in car wash systems is not because they are special, but because the end users are NOTORIOUSLY cheap and don't pay. So specialized companies arise to service them, creating custom proprietary controls so that the end users MUST treat them with respect, or get no support. Once an end user finds someone (like you) willing to dive into the control systems, they will use them to snub the specialized suppliers, who will NOT want to help YOU out, then the car wash owner will end up stiffing you and go back to them.

You might guess how I know...

sparkie · Jul 19, 2017

Thanks for the advice. I found information on those controllers, believe it or not, on a security site. A researcher was going through one and ended up checking vulnerabilities on car wash systems in general. These are definitely propriatary controllers. I'll let him know that I can troubleshoot the io, and possibly b replace if necessary, but can't do integrations for him.

jraef · Jul 19, 2017

Get your money up front...

The thing that gets me is, self serve car washes make the owners a lot of money, they are cash cows. I contemplated buying one as a side business once after seeing the financials when I was doing work on them, but the entry cost is huge. Maybe that explains why the people who do it are the miserly types; it takes that type of person to afford to get into that business is n the first place.

sparkie · Jul 19, 2017

I'm thinking the entry cost would be reduced if I did the controls design and install myself hehe.

jraef · Jul 19, 2017

Same thing I thought. Not true though.

I had found what I thought was the PERFECT spot for one, an old abandoned gas station (where the underground tanks were already removed and the soil cleaned), in a part of town where for various tax reasons, almost all of the large corporation sales offices were located. So lots of salesmen who want to keep their cars clean, easy freeway access etc. The permitting costs were astronomical, the requirements for the environmental impact studies, traffic flow studies, "community aesthetic studies", disabled access studies etc. etc., however laughable, were going to set me back over $200k before I stuck a shovel in the ground to start building it. And that was in 1995!

kwade · Jul 19, 2017

jraef said:
Same thing I thought. Not true though.
...
The permitting costs were astronomical, the requirements for the environmental impact studies, traffic flow studies, "community aesthetic studies", disabled access studies etc. etc., however laughable, were going to set me back over $200k before I stuck a shovel in the ground to start building it. And that was in 1995!

And then, if you actually stuck a shovel in the ground.... sheesh!

g.mccormick · Jul 19, 2017

jraef said:
Same thing I thought. Not true though.

I had found what I thought was the PERFECT spot for one, an old abandoned gas station (where the underground tanks were already removed and the soil cleaned), in a part of town where for various tax reasons, almost all of the large corporation sales offices were located. So lots of salesmen who want to keep their cars clean, easy freeway access etc. The permitting costs were astronomical, the requirements for the environmental impact studies, traffic flow studies, "community aesthetic studies", disabled access studies etc. etc., however laughable, were going to set me back over $200k before I stuck a shovel in the ground to start building it. And that was in 1995!

To be fair though, not every place is California.

sparkie · Jul 19, 2017

Went back today and finished up the vacuum install. They weren't all that pleased when I told them that I could do routine maintenance and monthly PM's to check all of their pumps/equipment/electrical etc to look for any problem issues and save them some downtime, but I wouldn't be able to work on the controller.

Upon a closer inspection, it seems that there is a panel PC running something written using the .Net runtime libraries that is speaking with the IO over modbus in order to control the wash. I *did* however find the the spot for the keys to the wash, and the spot on the HMI to start the cycle

allscott · Jul 19, 2017

Did you offer to clean up the wiring for them?

GaryS · Jul 20, 2017

I would give some thought to just replacing the controller with a newer updated one you are familiar with, the program is not that complex, it would be good practice
I have done a few carwashes and as for the owners being cheep some are some aren't you have to know your customer

sparkie · Jul 20, 2017

Thing is, my company is an electrical company. We are electricians rather than controls guys. So I'm willing to do minor jobs and any and all troubleshooting, but I'm starting school in a month too so I'm not interested in installing that job and liability. There is a nice bit of motion control in this one.

As far as the wiring goes, no point. They would have it back that way in a month.

Carwash controller

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