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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:38 PM   #1
ASF
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Schneider Advantys STB Remote I/O Addressing

Hi all,

TL;DR - what structure does an input/output address from an STB RIO rack have in Schneider programming software?


I'm designing a control panel for a customer who wants me to use Schneider Advantys STB remote I/O. I've never used it before, and I don't know what type of PLC they're connecting it to, but the programming is in their scope so that's not really a big drama.

However, I like to get all the little details right as much as possible, and one of those details is to describe on each page of the schematics what range of I/O addresses is represented. I've downloaded and installed the Schneider Advantys Builder software and constructed the rack, so I know which module has which range of addresses - but what I don't know is how those addresses are then represented in the PLC. For example, if I use a Logix controller, the address structure is along the lines of:
Code:
Chassis:Slot.Type.Data.Point
Which might look like:
Code:
RIO1:03.I.Data.4
Can anyone give me an example of what this might look like in a Schneider PLC? If anyone can share a screenshot of an input/output data address from an STB remote I/O rack in the relevant software, that'd be a huge help.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 08:02 PM   #2
V0N_hydro
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It's been a long time since I used it, but it basically makes an "IO image" for the island. each io module has a certain memory map of 16 bit registers, the IO image for the island is just all of the module maps smushed together. We always used the modbus NIP so we would program the schneider IO scanner to read the 60 registers or however big the island was from the NIP in to say %MW100, then we could create the tags at %MW100, %MW101, %MW102 as required in order to correspond to the register maps from the modules.


A better way might be to make UDTs or DFBs representing each modules IO map and then plop them down at the right address in the image read from the island.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 10:44 PM   #3
ASF
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Thanks. Just to clarify, I don't actually have to program this, the customer is doing that in-house - I just have to design the remote I/O rack and build the panel.

In AB world it's similar inasmuchas having a "memory map" of 16-bit registers - from a 16-bit input card I'll get a 16-bit integer, from which each bit 0-15 represents an individual input 0-15.

But if I understand what you're saying correctly - in Schneider land, you don't read the inputs directly so much; you tell the scanner to map all the I/O data from address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx and store it in %MWnnn. Is that correct?


edit: In case it's relevant, I'm using the STBNIP2311 Ethernet Modbus TCP NIP.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 01:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASF View Post
Thanks. Just to clarify, I don't actually have to program this, the customer is doing that in-house - I just have to design the remote I/O rack and build the panel.

In AB world it's similar inasmuchas having a "memory map" of 16-bit registers - from a 16-bit input card I'll get a 16-bit integer, from which each bit 0-15 represents an individual input 0-15.

But if I understand what you're saying correctly - in Schneider land, you don't read the inputs directly so much; you tell the scanner to map all the I/O data from address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx and store it in %MWnnn. Is that correct?


edit: In case it's relevant, I'm using the STBNIP2311 Ethernet Modbus TCP NIP.
That is exactly how it works. And the same for the outputs. You would write to certain bits in a word and the io scanner (In schneider world) will write to the relevant outputs.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 12:52 PM   #5
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I would just stick with a cabinet #.rack #.module#.point # to describe on the schematic what range of IO addresses is represented.


That way you can make the schematics the same regardless of what RIO product is used.



For ~ the same money they could use M340 remote IO and get a solid backplane and module hot swap and pre-wired cables. I would not recommend the advantys product to anyone.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 06:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V0N_hydro View Post
I would just stick with a cabinet #.rack #.module#.point # to describe on the schematic what range of IO addresses is represented. That way you can make the schematics the same regardless of what RIO product is used.
That's generally what I do, and given what I've now learned, that's what I'll do here too.

The Cabinet-Rack-Module-Point method works some of the time, but not all. Sometimes I'm not working with distributed I/O racks; I'm working with e.g. a shoebox click koyo PLC where an I/O address might be X204 or Y001. Or a Siemens PLC where the slot number has no bearing whatsoever on the range of input addresses, and each slot can have multiple input bytes (e.g. Slot 2 could have I12.0-7, I13.0-7, I14.0-7, I15.0-7). Wherever possible, I try to match wire numbers and schematic descriptions to the actual I/O points to make troubleshooting easier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by V0N_hydro View Post
For ~ the same money they could use M340 remote IO and get a solid backplane and module hot swap and pre-wired cables. I would not recommend the advantys product to anyone.
Really? Why is that? I'm not disagreeing with you - I've not used it before and only selected it here because the customer stipulated it. But curious to know why you think this, in case I'm looking to select a Schneider RIO rack myself later on.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 06:58 PM   #7
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the modules snap to eachother to form a backplane, like compactlogix, except the modules are shorter and narrower so the whole thing ends up quite flexy and finicky to ensure the modules are correctly seated to eachother. replacing a module in the middle of an rack/island is not something I would want to have to do to an operating machine.


maybe some modules offer pre-wired cables but having to wire right to the front of the module I think is a mess. there are no doors on the front of the modules to hide the wiring, just terminals. so it's either a mess, not very good looking, or extremely time consuming.


Last I used it the web interface it required java version 6 plugin for a web browser so you need a virtual machine with windows XP and internet explorer. maybe they have updated that.


so it is definitely crappier than M340 IO and it isn't much cheaper if at all once you get the same density and specs.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 03:48 AM   #8
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Whilst I do agree that clipping the module bases together requires some care (I clip them together on a firm surface then put the whole thing onto DIN rail), I've changed modules on the fly with no issues.

If you use them with an M340/M580 and use the DHCP server to assign IP addresses then they are super easy to configure using Advantys. The old Java interface was painful yes. I haven't used it in 5+ years.

Where these really shine is on brownfield applications replacing old Modicon momentum DIO. I did a 10 pump WWPS with an MCC that was 20m long and had 10 modules throughout it. Would have needed 10 racks with some only needing 16 DI / DO. STB worked perfectly for this.

Maybe our discount structure is different but I find the STB option cheaper provided there's not a lot of analog out. They only do 2AO per card max and those are expensive.

For a greenfield site yes I'd probably stick with the X80 modules in a rack if it was all new cabling and i had control of what was going where.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 10:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V0N_hydro View Post



For ~ the same money they could use M340 remote IO and get a solid backplane and module hot swap and pre-wired cables. I would not recommend the advantys product to anyone.
You sure about that ?

An M340 rack and 24VDC PSU is 309, that's roughly the same cost as a Modbus TCP Advantys NIM and PSU.

By my reckoning M340 only ever gets near the cost of Advantys in very I/O dense systems, for anything less than 128 I/O i think Advantys is significantly cheaper
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Old May 22nd, 2020, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tragically1969 View Post
You sure about that ?

An M340 rack and 24VDC PSU is 309, that's roughly the same cost as a Modbus TCP Advantys NIM and PSU.

By my reckoning M340 only ever gets near the cost of Advantys in very I/O dense systems, for anything less than 128 I/O i think Advantys is significantly cheaper

I am not sure. I did do a comparison about 8 years ago and moved off advantys and never looked back. maybe I didn't have great pricing for advantys. my racks are usually something like 3x32 DI, 2x32 DO, 2x8AI,1x4AO
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