Forces Grayed Out

When you toggle the output bit the next scan of the rung turns it off.
When you toggle the input bit the next IO read will turn it off.

For troubleshooting, or to upgrade the rung for a new setup, branch around the input with a XIC Toggle_Bit_1, and to force the output on branch all the inputs and existing branch with a XIC Toggle_Bit_2

Capture.JPG
 
Having the logic really helps! You cannot force the tags because they are not aliased to digital inputs or outputs directly. The digital IO is distributed through the programs "Copy_Inputs" and "Copy_Outputs".

I could give you the simple answer, but I think this is a great learning opportunity. this is where the cross reference tool is going to be your best friend. For instance, if you do a cross reference on "I[25].6" you will see a CPS in the elements column. This lets you know that the data is either being copied from somewhere, or to somewhere. Double clicking on the CPS takes you to rung 77 of Routine Inputs. The second CPS instruction shows that "Node_4:I.Data[0]" is getting copied into I[24] for the next 8 arrays. This means that Node_4:I.Data[0-7] are getting copied into I[24-31].

Okay, down the rabbit hole. Let's look at the input you had on the picture. I_031_Bit06. If you look in the Edit Tags screen of your controller tags, and then scroll down to that particular tag, you will see that it is an alias for I[25].6. Doing a cross reference of I[25].6 tag shows the CPS that I mentioned earlier. Since Node_4:I.Data[0] is copying to I[24], the tag array you want to find is going to be Node_4:I.Data[1]. This is because I[25] is one array higher than I[24], therefore you need to be one data array higher than Node_4:I.Data[0]. In a very roundabout way, I_031_Bit06 is set by Node_4:I.Data[1].6. The bit that you want to try to force is going to be Node_4:I.Data[1].6.

I hope this helps you out and isn't too confusing.
 
I forgot to ask...what and where is the "Cross Reference Tool"

it's on the same pop-up menu where you found the "force" selections ... it basically shows you all of the places in your code where the target address is used ...

incidentally - some of the techniques that have been discussed here are quite DANGEROUS ... keep in mind that "forcing" and "bypassing" and "toggling" and so forth - are overriding the machinery's normal intended operation ... please be careful - and make sure that other folks around you are aware that the machine might be making some unexpected motions ...
 
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Apologies for the little tangents...

kamaroman68 said:
Upper left yellow where it says no forces. You need to "enable" forces. Use the pull down arrow

Another one slipping through the cracks...

kamaroman68,

If you care to, have a read of my earlier, brief run-through of the status displayed in RSLogix 5000 when forces "are" enabled. If we look at the screenshots provided, we can see that the pointer icon is "Purple" and the background to the pointer icon is "Yellow". This indicates that "Enable All Forces" has already been selected, but currently there are no forces "installed" i.e. no tag which may be forced has been selected for "Force On" or "Force Off". As soon as a force is "installed" on a tag, the status will change from "No Forces" to "Forces" and the pointer icon will change to "Red".

Note: With forces already enabled (Yellow). As soon as a force is "installed", the force will immediately be applied.

chippieboy,

Your issue seems to be what we were suspecting. This method of conversion is quite common where the original I/O addressing syntax is mimicked while creating the user-defined equivalent tags in the new project. Also, the use of COP or CPS instructions to map the raw module-defined data to/from "meaningful" tags serves its purpose but unfortunately "leaves" the base tag references behinds.

You could create Controller-Scoped alias tags of the Controller-Scoped base tags and then create Program-Scoped alias tags of those Controller-Scoped alias tags. Or directly you may create Program-Scoped alias tags of the Controller-Scoped base tags and the base tag references would remain intact for forcing.

But I'm gathering that all this talk of alias tags is confusing you more so than assisting you?

Regards,
George
 
Yes George, you are correct, I am now spinning from info overload, I think I will use the "Add a new branch" method for now to get this thing going. I thank everyone for their input. I learned quite a bit. Anyone out there interested in converting the hardware from PLC 5 to something a little more modern? I think i'm OK with our Logix 5555 PLC but the 3 older 1171 I/O racks scare me. FAILURE
 
Aabeck's branching suggestion is a perfectly simply and quite common solution and should hopefully suit your needs here. The only other advice I would dispense on that is...

1. Personally, I would advise you to only temporarily add the branching logic to provide a toggle method - do not add the toggle logic permanently (messy looking and open to potentially unwanted interference later on down the road), but essentially it's your call.

2. Don't forget that when you use this branch toggle method around an input assigned instruction on a rung, you will only effectively toggle this single instance of the tag address you wish to test. That's fine if it's just this single rung of logic you wish to test. By comparison, using forces on the same input tag address will result in all instances of the actual input tag address being forced i.e. logic on more than one rung may simultaneously be executed. More powerful, but potentially more dangerous.

Regards,
George
 
One thing I would add, since that activates a solenoid valve, is some more XIC'z on the rung.


E-Stop power ON
MCR/K1 ON
Machine Running
It's Not Sunday or 3:00AM
& Anything else relivant to allow the valve to be on
 
Just a pit-stop on this one...


Logix_500_5k%20-%20Enable_IO_Forcing.jpg

in the picture of the RSLogix500, arrow to the right of the arrow is grayed out but only on certain programs. How do I remedy this?

Thanks.
 
Welcome to the PLCTalk forum community !

It may be better to start a new thread and ask your question anew.

In general, the screenshots you posted of Studio 5000 show a ControlLogix controller without any Forces installed, so the functions for Disabling them or Removing them would not be available.

RSLogix 500 can be a little confusing because it shows "Forces Enabled" even when offline. That's just an artifact of how they built that indicator, twenty years ago.
 
also ...

in RSLogix500 for some of the MicroLogix controllers, the forces are ALWAYS enabled ... specifically, you cannot disable the forces in some of the smaller processors ...

arrow to the right of the arrow is grayed out

not sure that I understand that statement - so my answer is a GUESS as to what you mean ... if you need more help then you might want to post again and put more detail in your question ...

welcome to the forum ...
 
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