Learning motion control.

Hello Everyone,


I would like to become more knowledgeable with motion control and have been considering building a test stand to play around with.

It's an expensive option to gather all the parts needed to build this so i was trying to get my company to buy me the emulator for studio 5000 instead but that seems like a no go Plus i'm not sure how good the emulator would be for this.

I would like to keep it to Rockwell motion control/Kinetix since we have a lot of that at my workplace, I have access to all the programs and trouble shoot and modify them as needed. I just can't play around with them as much as i like since they are live systems in production.

Any other options ? I know the Connected components have a simulator built in and can also do motion i'm just not sure if that would good enough to work for what i needed or even if the simulator can be used with motion?

I will eventually go to rockwell training for motion control but with covid it's not likely to be any time soon.I have done the E learning course on motion controls but that seems kinda basic.I'm hoping the in person hands on course is going to be better.

Rockwell do some good online training on Kinetix CIP Motion Control- recently there was a special offer on 1 free course per email address, unfortunately this has onw elapsed.

The other option I recommend- is to buy a ControlLogix CPU and do motion simulation via Virtual Axes (theoretically you can perform the same operations- just without the physical hardware), you can test camming and all other commands apart from the Motion Servo On and Off (MSO/MSF).

There are a mix of commands and tags dependent between different motion types (CIP- Ethernet/IP AXIS_SERVO_DRIVE- SERCOS II).


Regards

Daniel

@Balboa:
There are good video training on motion control on : http://deltamotion.com/, they also have a good booklet.

They also have a channel on youtube too :
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq8bE9xBT-vVUBi3flnY4Tw

Yaskawa also has a good channel on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa0_4xna1d031vj_XdzTtBA

Send me a PM.

Don't you have spares in house? I would think you could build a test stand with all your spares? I would just say our making sure that the firmware is the same so that its easier to install the spare when the need arrives. I don't think management would have a problem with this idea.

Just be careful in follow all your power up and down of servos since they are more susceptible to damage due to powering up and down.

I know that the area Rockwell rep or distributor has servo trainers in a box that you can borrow. Does not hurt to ask, I think they would just need an open PO to them to borrow it.

from collinsd70:

The other option I recommend- is to buy a ControlLogix CPU and do motion simulation via Virtual Axes (theoretically you can perform the same operations- just without the physical hardware),

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+1 on that idea ...

follow some of the related links in the following post to demonstrate ...

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?p=704567&postcount=4

welcome to the forum - and good luck with your project ...

Thank you everyone for the reply's. I will definitely take a look at those link's posted.

I will get a Plc and try the virtual route first. I didn't know it was possible to do it that way i was thinking i would need a Plc,drive, motor and encoder.


And thanks for the welcome Ron,I've been lurking in the background for some time now .

Balboa said:

Thank you everyone for the reply's. I will definitely take a look at those link's posted.

I will get a Plc and try the virtual route first. I didn't know it was possible to do it that way i was thinking i would need a Plc,drive, motor and encoder.


And thanks for the welcome Ron,I've been lurking in the background for some time now .

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I recommend having an idea of what you want to do with motion and make a visual of it so you can see how it works and not just assume you did it right.

One - do some kind of rotating motion, so assume something heavy so hard to move and hard to stop. Have it do one rotation and tune it so it doesn't osculate, then try having it rotate only a 3rd.

Second - a lot of people will run conveyor lines off of a master virtual and then all the other conveyors try and match the virtual instead of a real conveyor with a bunch of noise in the feedback.

I would also look at Deltas RMC line, I think Pete has the software so you can simulate the motion control.

VAN said:

I would also look at Deltas RMC line, I think Pete has the software so you can simulate the motion control.

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Yes, we have a software simulator built into our motion controllers. This allows one to "test at your desk". This way one can be 90% done before going into the field where it is noisy and we often have to sit on upside down garbage cans or a roll or cable. We can simulate hydraulic or servo motor type of systems. We use the systems open loop gain and time constant for a motor and the open loop gain damping factor and natural frequency. The simulator can also be used to estimate peak accelerations or velocities. This is an example of simulated flying shear.
https://deltamotion.com/peter/Videos/FlyingShear/SimpleFlyingShear.mp4
One of the plotted lines is the acceleration. Now the mechanical designer can compute how much torque is required to achieve that acceleration and deceleration. Notice also that the acceleration is a smooth curve, not a segmented line like most motion controllers.
Universities and trade schools use our controllers for training. We did have training classes here at Delta before the CCP-virus. Now we make videos or do on line training.
https://forum.deltamotion.com/

The simulator was necessary for me when writing code and working on algorithms. Obviously I cannot have a 50 ton roll of steel in the office nor the means to move it. The simulator lets me test algorithms on all sorts of systems.

Jim3846 said:

Don't you have spares in house? I would think you could build a test stand with all your spares?

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We have spares across the company in different states, It would be nice if i could get a hold of them but getting them shipped here when they are not needed right away for a breakdown isn't so straight forward.

Peter Nachtwey said:

Yes, we have a software simulator built into our motion controllers.

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Thanks Peter but i am looking at Rockwell Kinetix CIP motion due to what we already have in house. The cheapest option if i can get a hold of the spares.

Balboa said:

Thanks Peter but i am looking at Rockwell Kinetix CIP motion due to what we already have in house. The cheapest option if i can get a hold of the spares.

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If you already have Rockwell stuff running then why can't you learn from working examples?

If you get desperate, download RMCTools off our website and connect to our controller at Delta over the internet. You don't need to buy anything.



If you are only controlling conveyors then there isn't that much to learn. It is the application and how well the mechanics are designed that determine the degree of difficulty.

Balboa said:

Thanks Peter but i am looking at Rockwell Kinetix CIP motion due to what we already have in house. The cheapest option if i can get a hold of the spares.

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I wouldn't worry about the tools used if you want to learn motion. The RMC stuff might make something click in your brain that will translate to Rockwell very easily.

Motion isn't that hard, but getting good at it can be hard.

Peter Nachtwey said:

If you already have Rockwell stuff running then why can't you learn from working examples?

If you get desperate, download RMCTools off our website and connect to our controller at Delta over the internet. You don't need to buy anything.



If you are only controlling conveyors then there isn't that much to learn. It is the application and how well the mechanics are designed that determine the degree of difficulty.

Click to expand...

I learned a lot from the machines we already have and can follow the logic and troubleshoot issues and make changes but i would also like to know the in's and outs of it and why certain things are done a certain way etc.
We don't have any conveyor's

I will look into RMCTools thanks.