3 identical machines with identical IP addresses . Would like to bring into a HMI

[Paullys50]

The prices I just received .........

1783-BMS10CGN $2,305.50
9300-ENA $1,230.00

Jezz, list or practically list prices! The 9300-EN is list anyway.

If the 1783-NATR follows list, then $1010 for reference.

You should read the manuals for the configuration. The Stratix 5700 is a fully managed switch, which is nice if you need the features of a managed switch but if you only need NAT translation it's probably overkill.

 

[arlenjacobs]

Get an HMI with three IP Addresses. Such as the GE QuickPanel+ 10", 12" and 15" units. Which has 2 Ethernet ports with unique IPs plus USB, add an Ethernet-to-USB adapter for the 3rd.

All the PLCs will have the same IP address, so how does the HMI reference back to the correct PLC?
Does the GE HMI let you choose which Ethernet port to use for each PLC?

That would be fantastic if it does!
You would have to buy the HMI anyway; that would save buying three NAT devices.


I know several other HMIs have two Ethernet ports, but they could not solve this problem; three PLCs with same IP.
They let you setup two/three Ethernet ports but you cannot link a specific port to a specific PLC.

 

[V0N_hydro]

while it is commercial grade not industrial grade, and they are not very easy to learn how to configure, mikrotik routerboards are definitely capable of doing a NAT on individual interfaces so you could feed the three devices with the same IP in to one routerboard which would present three unique IP addresses to the HMI. There are rack mount models but no DIN mount that I have seen (have to attach din clip(s) to their metal enclosures). https://routerboard.com/

I have deployed dozens of these outdoors and they have been very reliable.

 

[RussB]

It depends a bit on which protocol you will need to use but if its in the OPC Driver section those devices have a setup tab where you can select which network adapter to use.
Contact GE or your area rep to inform you on details and request a 30 day trial license of PME View Software to verify that this is what you want.

All the PLCs will have the same IP address, so how does the HMI reference back to the correct PLC?
Does the GE HMI let you choose which Ethernet port to use for each PLC?

That would be fantastic if it does!
You would have to buy the HMI anyway; that would save buying three NAT devices.

I know several other HMIs have two Ethernet ports, but they could not solve this problem; three PLCs with same IP.
They let you setup two/three Ethernet ports but you cannot link a specific port to a specific PLC.

 

[DwSoFt]

It depends a bit on which protocol you will need to use but if its in the OPC Driver section those devices have a setup tab where you can select which network adapter to use.
Contact GE or your area rep to inform you on details and request a 30 day trial license of PME View Software to verify that this is what you want.

The only downside is see with this arrangement is that you need to run 3 cat5e to the hmi rather than 1.

 

[Usireland]

Another option would be the Tech Note below:

How to configure the Stratix 5700 with NAT to handle multiple identical machines.
619491 | Date Created: 09/03/2014 | Last Updated: 01/12/2015
Access Level: Everyone

This explains how to use 2 Stratix 5700 switches (one with NAT an another which just needs full firmware) to connect multiple machines with the same IP addresses to a Single Computer / Line Controller.

I have successfully implemented this on a test bench with 4 Stratix 5700 with NAT Switches and a Single 5700 1783-BMS06TGA as the "Router". This worked well on the bench but I have never put it into practice in an industrial setting.

Regards
Ian

Edit to Add: Although I have not tried this, My rockwell rep recommended that if you want to expand this to a Large Number of points it is better to use a Stratix 5400 on top and "Lite Firmware" switches as your collectors. The Lite firmware allows you to create the V-Lans and then the 5400 can perform the Routing and the NAT uptop. When you need a large number of Switches the difference in price between the NAT version and then Lite version become so significant that it pays for the difference between the simple 5700 as the router and a 5400 as the router. This set up I have not tested on the bench.

 

[Phil Buchanan]

The choice depends on how many translations you need.

The 1783-NATR is limited to 32 translations and the 9300-ENA is limited to 128 translations and a Stratix 5700 series or 800 or 8300 switch has much more horsepower and can translate an entire /24 subnet range.

 

[Phil Buchanan]

No, you will need three switches to manage three diferent translations.

This is incorrect you can in fact translate multiple networks / subnets in one switch.

 

[Usireland]

This is incorrect you can in fact translate multiple networks / subnets in one switch.

Mr Buchanan,

Have you found a way to translate 3 networks / subnets in one switch and connect a computer to said switch which can communicate with all 3 networks at the same time without an additional router? If so could you share how you achieved this. I have been unable to achieve this using the Stratix 5700 switches.

Regards
Ian McDonald

 

[Phil Buchanan]

Mr Buchanan,

Have you found a way to translate 3 networks / subnets in one switch and connect a computer to said switch which can communicate with all 3 networks at the same time without an additional router? If so could you share how you achieved this. I have been unable to achieve this using the Stratix 5700 switches.

Regards
Ian McDonald

Without going into great detail you need to decide what ports you want for each subnet and make a vlan for each of those groups then setup a subnet translation for each of those VLAN's and create another VLAN or use the default VLAN that is setup for the web interface and management of the switch and setup inter VLAN routing between your management VLAN with you laptop and the other 3.

I am not sure how clear this is in the web interface or if it will let you do it because honestly I never use it I do everything over console because the web interface is very limited.

But an additional router is not needed because you can set the switch itself at layer 3 which is all a router does in this concept.

 

[redbarron55]

What machines and are you sure that the IP addres cannot be changed?
If they bothered to give an address then perhaps they mean for you to access that address and then change it as necessary.
Some of the newer devices we have had have web based interfaces that you can connect to and configure them.
I often use scan.exe to connect as a computer and then log in and configure.
It's worth a try.
I have a hard time imagining a device accessible via TCPIP that cannot be configured. I can see one that has a default address that would need to be changed, however.

 

[Usireland]

What machines and are you sure that the IP addres cannot be changed?
If they bothered to give an address then perhaps they mean for you to access that address and then change it as necessary.
Some of the newer devices we have had have web based interfaces that you can connect to and configure them.
I often use scan.exe to connect as a computer and then log in and configure.
It's worth a try.
I have a hard time imagining a device accessible via TCPIP that cannot be configured. I can see one that has a default address that would need to be changed, however.

Generally speaking its not a case of not being able to change the address, its a case of not wanting to change the address. In many cases it can be an advantage that the IP addresses in multiple machines are the same. It means that if say I have 3 identical machines and I want to make a significant program change, I can make it in one machine and then just download it to the other two machines without having the worry about changing all the Remote IO/VFD/Servo IP addresses inside the program.

Another advantage is that because the machines are identical, if a machine goes down, for trouble shooting purposes, a guy from maintenance can take a Drive from one machine and put it straight into the other machine without having to reconfigure its network settings etc.

Are these important to your plant? Maybe/maybe not. Its different from Plant to Plant. As an OEM a lot of our customers are asking for solutions with identical machines with NAT so that they do not need to worry about IP addresses etc.

 

[redbarron55]

While I can see that there might be advantages to the machines having the same address in some limited situations I don't know how they can exist on the same network with that same address.
Moving a drive from machine to machine might be and answer, but it creates wo machines down instead of one.
Perhaps cloning the drive and keep in it as a spare.
We do this on some wonderware panels that have problematic.
We would have a problem with them having the same addresses, however since they and their respective PLCs are on one network.
To each his own, I guess.