CCW and non Allen Bradley HMI

[PLC Pie Guy]

While I agree that learning how to program the Micro 800 series of PLC's is a good thing to do, you won't be having to jump from the MicroLogix 1100 anytime soon. It's listed as "active mature" which means it is still fully supported but there is a recommend replacement for it (the Micro 800 in some cases the CompactLogix in others). There has been a lot of discussion with regards to what means what when AB lists a product as something other active but the reality is it could last another 5+ years before they list it as discontinued. Having said all of that, the Micro 800's have become a good product as has CCW (make sure you get the latest version) so there are good reasons to switch over to them.

Just on my experience over the past few years....
We get a LOT of machines through here. 90% of the smaller stand alone machines are either small logix processors or Micro800 line up. I saw a new Pallet Wrapper come in about 5 years ago with a Micrologix but since then, no Micrologix to speak of. Now I do have a bunch of Micrologix on older equipment....

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

Does it do CIP messaging, if not you cannot be sure when your command is received. I remember this was issue with Micrologix and VFDs.

Not a problem!
I know what you speak of, there is lots of discussion here about why you should not do just that.
However, this isn't the case here. These 2 were made for each other. Oh I probably sound like a Rockwell salesman.. I just like this particular equipment!

 

[mdim]

Not a problem!
I know what you speak of, there is lots of discussion here about why you should not do just that.
However, this isn't the case here. These 2 were made for each other. Oh I probably sound like a Rockwell salesman.. I just like this particular equipment!

I might be an old guy but I would expect that kind of answer from a seller or finance manager, not from engineer. Don't get me wrong, I love running VFDs just on EIP, but only when I am sure that when commanded it will stop. And with messaging this is not the case, while with CIP messaging it is.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

I might be an old guy but I would expect that kind of answer from a seller or finance manager, not from engineer. Don't get me wrong, I love running VFDs just on EIP, but only when I am sure that when commanded it will stop. And with messaging this is not the case, while with CIP messaging it is.

Sorry,. I realize that was a quick answer. It is CIP messaging. It always stops, it always starts. Plus if there is a comms fault the drive will (by default) fault and stop anyway. I have done it many times and have had many pieces of equipment I set up like this and network commands are the last thing I'v had any issues with between the two.
I'm no engineer though, or finance manger. Just "the guy" around here that uses this stuff on the daily.

Apologies for posting to quickly a partial answer, it was early this morning.




Actually. Now that I'm looking into it... I'm not so sure it IS CIP messaging just using the provided 525 status and command function blocks to control a 525. I see that it has the ABILITY to do CIP messaging over Ethernet or serial for other peripherals like motion drives, but I need to do a little more research on it as well to determine if this is "CIP" messaging or..... apologies once again. I need to do some reading myself it seems.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

So, just to clear up my own ignorance and to hopefully rectify the fact that I opened my big mouth and couldn’t say if it was or wasn’t “CIP”.
In my world I guess most things are CIP as I normally always deal with Logix or Micro in a Rockwell environment.

As I understand it. All things EthernetIP and Talking without having to set up a message instruction to be read or write at a given interval are functioning within the CIP as producers and consumers. As is the micro to 525. The 525cmd/sts function block only needs to be told an IP address and full drive control is possible. Adding the 525 to the project sets up the data model that will allow them to talk CIP to each other, the function block handles the data.

This is only what I have been able to research this evening here on my iPhone but has highlighted the fact that I need to learn about this a bit / a lot more and will be doing so come Monday if not beforehand. I never think to much about some of this stuff. I Just keep building machines typically the same couple ways over and over.

Apologies for the direction of the thread as a result of my ignorance. As you were.

 

[Firejo]

Just on my experience over the past few years....
We get a LOT of machines through here. 90% of the smaller stand alone machines are either small logix processors or Micro800 line up. I saw a new Pallet Wrapper come in about 5 years ago with a Micrologix but since then, no Micrologix to speak of. Now I do have a bunch of Micrologix on older equipment....

I think a majority of MicroLogix 1100 sales are probably sustaining applications. There are probably a few new application sales, but with the number of units that are out there, a need for replacement and/or new builds on old designs I'm sure is high.

 

[JZerb]

...which I absolutely understand. I like doing the same when appropriate. *But* there are technicians out there who will curse your name if you don't choose to hard-wire at least your start/stop and probably your speed reference. You limit who can work on fixing things when you have all network control.

I also see an issue when the VFD gets discontinued but needs to be replaced.

Good topic! I just integrated a Micro 820 into an older re-branded Red Lion. I had to use Modbus TCP/IP because the HMI was built before AB had the Micro 800 PLCs. It seems to be working well, and this was a good thing to learn. I ended up buying another Micro 820 to play around with yesterday, but I'm having trouble using the emulator on my VM to experiment with it. I'll probably be posting a question soon.

Just out of curiosity does your problem with the Micro 800 emulator in your VM happen to be the fact that it just doesn't launch at all? I have that issue with VMWare and a Windows Server 2012 R2 guest guest OS.

 

[JZerb]

I might be an old guy but I would expect that kind of answer from a seller or finance manager, not from engineer. Don't get me wrong, I love running VFDs just on EIP, but only when I am sure that when commanded it will stop. And with messaging this is not the case, while with CIP messaging it is.

Sorry,. I realize that was a quick answer. It is CIP messaging. It always stops, it always starts. Plus if there is a comms fault the drive will (by default) fault and stop anyway. I have done it many times and have had many pieces of equipment I set up like this and network commands are the last thing I'v had any issues with between the two.
I'm no engineer though, or finance manger. Just "the guy" around here that uses this stuff on the daily.

Apologies for posting to quickly a partial answer, it was early this morning.




Actually. Now that I'm looking into it... I'm not so sure it IS CIP messaging just using the provided 525 status and command function blocks to control a 525. I see that it has the ABILITY to do CIP messaging over Ethernet or serial for other peripherals like motion drives, but I need to do a little more research on it as well to determine if this is "CIP" messaging or..... apologies once again. I need to do some reading myself it seems.

I think what the first poster was getting at was if the EIP comms from the Micro800 line to the PF525 were Implicit or Explicit. I could be wrong, but thats just my take. The answer to that question is that the Micro800 to PF525 EIP comms are done using explicit messaging ( I hope I have that right) as apposed to Implicit like what you would see with the Compact or ControlLogix PLCs.

 

[mdim]

JZerb, I think you are right and it's my turn to apologize. I found this article that explains it pretty much about CLX and MicroLogix:
https://rockwellautomation.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/592978/loc/en_US
Access Level: Everyone

Unfortunately I couldn't find something similar about Micro series

 

[AutomationTechBrian]

Just out of curiosity does your problem with the Micro 800 emulator in your VM happen to be the fact that it just doesn't launch at all? I have that issue with VMWare and a Windows Server 2012 R2 guest guest OS.

I had that issue until I realized I needed to hit the lightning bolt to get the emulator to launch, even with the emulator button pushed.

I still haven't gotten any of the emulators, host or VM, to work over either Modbus or Micro 800 Master. I usually assume it's something I'm not doing right, until I prove otherwise.

 

[JZerb]

I had that issue until I realized I needed to hit the lightning bolt to get the emulator to launch, even with the emulator button pushed.

I still haven't gotten any of the emulators, host or VM, to work over either Modbus or Micro 800 Master. I usually assume it's something I'm not doing right, until I prove otherwise.

Lighting bolt? Care to take a screenshot and point that out for me? I would just click the emulator icon in the toolbar in CCW to launch the emulator and I just get a “failure to launch” error. Uninstalled and reinstalled CCW to no avail.

 

[AutomationTechBrian]

Here it is:

 

[AutomationTechBrian]

I re-read your post. You are talking about an emulator in CCW. I'm discussing the emulator in the Red Lion software. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JZerb]

I re-read your post. You are talking about an emulator in CCW. I'm discussing the emulator in the Red Lion software. Sorry for the confusion.

No worries. I was quite confused there for a moment. While we’re on the topic does your Micro800 emulator run in a VM properly?