Chaining 23 Profibus MM430 Drives to CPU

[KalleOlsen]

Thanks KalleOlsen,

The 2 PC's each have a Siemens CP5613A2 Profibus card installed. The Citect Driver is known as S7NT.

If I connect the 2 PC's to the MPI port:
1. I assume I should reconfigure that port as Profibus.
2. If I need at any time to use the PC adaptor can I do that using Profibus?

I will connect the MM drives to the other Profibus port.

No, I'm pretty sure you should keep it as MPI. Just use different node numbers for the PLC, PCa and PCb.

Kalle

 

[John Gaunt]

Thanks KalleOlsen,
The information I have is that the CP5613A2 card is for Profibus DP. The booklet says:
"The CP 5613 is a PCI card for connecting PC's to PROFIBUS under Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows Server 2003."

With this in mind if I re-configure the CPU MPI port to Profibus will I be able to use this port for my PC Adaptor on the rare occaisions that I might need to use it? Note that Step 7 programming is done from the PC's via CP 5613A2 and Profibus.

 

[KalleOlsen]

Thanks KalleOlsen,
The information I have is that the CP5613A2 card is for Profibus DP. The booklet says:
"The CP 5613 is a PCI card for connecting PC's to PROFIBUS under Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows Server 2003."

With this in mind if I re-configure the CPU MPI port to Profibus will I be able to use this port for my PC Adaptor on the rare occaisions that I might need to use it? Note that Step 7 programming is done from the PC's via CP 5613A2 and Profibus.

Here are the supported profibus protocols from the Siemens website http://www.automation.siemens.com/m...onnections-pg-pc/cp5613a2/Pages/cp5613a2.aspx

CP 5613A2:

• Communication sercives
  - PROFIBUS DP master class 1 and 2 or DP slave according to IEC 61158 und IEC 61784
  - PG/OP communication with STEP 5 or STEP 7
  - S7 communication with software product S7-5613
  - open communication (SEND/RECEIVE) based on the FDL interface
  - PROFIBUS FMS according to IEC 61158 und IEC 61784 with software product FMS-5613

Kalle

 

[John Gaunt]

Now I am getting a little confused about the Siemens drives. Initially I was advised to use MM430 because the MM440 doesn't communicate its LOCAL/REMOTE status via Profibus. Also it seems that switching LOCAL/REMOTE with MM440 can only be done by changing a setup parameter.
Anyway now Siemens are suggesting I use a Sinamics G drive. I need 46 drives plus a couple of spares. It looks expensive but I don't have pricing yet. Is this new drive the way to go?

 

[KalleOlsen]

MM440 doesn't communicate its LOCAL/REMOTE status via Profibus. Yes it does.

Also it seems that switching LOCAL/REMOTE with MM440 can only be done by changing a setup parameter. No, can be changed from Profibus/PLC. Do you plan to have start/stop buttons connected locally?

Anyway now Siemens are suggesting I use a Sinamics G drive. I need 46 drives plus a couple of spares. It looks expensive but I don't have pricing yet. Is this new drive the way to go? Yes, no worries (except pricing, perhaps).

After what I have heard, was the MM4 planned to be discontinuated a long time ago, but it has been so popular that Siemens kept producing.

If you go for Sinamics, you could also have a look at Profinet instead of Profibus.

Kalle

 

[John Gaunt]

Thanks Kalle,
I don't plan to have any start stop controls other than the panel mounted drive operator panel.
With the MM440 I wanted to change LOCAL/REMOTE on the operator panel. I was told it won't do that but the MM430 will.

It does now look like I need to consider the Sinamics G drive.
Does Profinet offer me any advantage over Profibus?

Thanks.

 

[KalleOlsen]

Hi John!

With the MM440 I wanted to change LOCAL/REMOTE on the operator panel.
You can reparametrize the 'Reverse' and 'Jog' buttons, look here:
http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/26435917


It does now look like I need to consider the Sinamics G drive.
Does Profinet offer me any advantage over Profibus?

I haven't changed to Profinet yet, and have got no field experience . Profinet is the modern solution with more speed and ethernet infrastructure. You'll have to gather info about switches, cables, plugs and comm.cards and compare the prices.

Here's the link to Sinamics site: http://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/topics/en/frequency-converters-sinamics/Pages/default.aspx

You'll find info about Profibus and Profinet here: www.profibus.com

Kalle

 

[L D[AR2P#0.0]]

There will be 23 PID Cooling control loops that are to be MM430 Drives connected to a S7 CPU using Profibus. Can I chain all these drives to just one profibus port.

Are these drives distributed about the plant or are they all located in the same cabinet suite?

 

[John Gaunt]

Thanks L D[AR2,P#0.0],
Due to very high ambient temperature in asian glass factories I always keep everything I can in an air conditioned control room. There will be a suite of panels including those housing the PLC equipment.

 

[Manglemender]

I've just commissioned 40 G120 drives all in one panel and all connected by Profibus to one PLC at 3Mb/S. I'll be adding another 20 drives in a couple of weeks, they will be on a separate Profibus network at 1.5Mb/S to the same PLC. The 20 extra drives are on a separate network at a lower speed for two reasons: 1) They are mounted in another panel approximately 100M from the CPU 2) To keep the bus cycle times similar, and as low as possible, as this is a Profisafe application.

You can determine the expected bus cycle time from the Harware config. The attached picture shows a Typical Token Rotation time of 11.5 mS which is more than adequate for my application.

People get hung up on speed for PID loops, many things in the real world don't change that fast - cooling loops aren't generally highly dynamic. Things to think about when considdering the PID cycle time are: How fast will my output be transferred to an actuater? How fast will the actuator respond? How fast can I measure a change in feedback? There is no point in running your PID loop faster than you can update the feedback or you will process the same error signal more than once. Considder distributing the PID loops so that they don't all execute on the same cycle i.e. use a counter to distribte the PID calls over say - 10scans of OB35.

Hope this helps,

Nick

 

[John Gaunt]

Thanks Manglemender,
I agree regarding speed. I usually run PID's every second from a cyclic interrupt. Even every 10 seconds would be OK.
I am trying to get a complete consistent list of the Drive components from Siemens. Once I have that list I will post it for comment.
Regards..........John Gaunt.

 

[John Gaunt]

OK. I now have a list of drive components from Siemens
as follows:

If we chose to use PM240 for our cooling fans:

46 Sinamics G120 Control Unit CU240B-2 DP-B.
46 Sinamics G120 Power Module 240.
46 Sinamics G120 Inteligent Operator Panel (IOP).
46 IOP door mounting kits.
46 Sinamics Line Reactor for Power Module.
138 25Amp Sitor Fuses to suit PM240.
46 Fuse Switch Disconnector.
48 Profibus Plugs.
1 Length of Profibus Cable.
2 Active Bus Terminators.
Plus we will provide 46 3 Phase circuit breakers in our Panels.

Note that there will be 2 almost identical systems each with its PLC and 23 Drives.

Any comments on this configuration are welcome.

 

[JRW]

Your going to need one of these in the middle of your network (as suggested in previous posts)
6ES7972-0AA02-0XA0
REPEATER RS485 F. PROFIBUS/MPI

Also- why two Active Bus Terminators ?
Your network starts at the CPU...right?

 

[JRW]

I also suggest using DriveES

DRIVE ES BASIC 6SW1700-5JA00-5AA0

This will integrate your drives into Step7 better. It will keep the parameter sets with your project
and you can launch Starter from within Step7

http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/49578285

 

[Manglemender]

You might want to try and cost it up with S120 Drives instead of G120s; Your component count and panel size would drop dramatically. For 23 drives it would be something like:

1 off Set of Line Fuses + holder
1 off Line reactor
1 off Line contactor
1 off Common rectifier unit
12 off double motor modules (or 23 singles dpending on size)
4 CU320 Control Modules
4 CU320 compact flash with performance enhancement 1
4 off Profibus Plugs
Much less profibus cable
Drive CliQ cables between CU320s and Motor Modules.

You may find that when all things are considdered (including panel build time) that the S120 is a cheaper option.

You could always put a small HMI on the panel if you need local controls.

Nick